[Open] AA revised bug (AA-fire/casualty selection issues)


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    @Cernel said in [Open] AA revised bug (AA-fire/casualty selection issues):

    @Panther Did it ever happen that, when you got hit, the bomber with 2 movement points left didn't die?...

    I did not test it that often. My tests were only to prove that there was an issue.

    However, good find, then!



  • @Cernel

    @Cernel said in [Open] AA revised bug (AA-fire/casualty selection issues):

    This has been officially clarified you (and me) were right (tho I was not sure, because I think the rules were not that clear). Of course, that is true the exact same way both for Combat and Non Combat Movement. The only other thing here is the fact that in v2 OOB air units that participated in combat return immediately after combat, so you roll those before the ones that are just non combat moving.

    That's interesting! Yes, after combat movement but also during non-combat, which I hadn't fully appreciated.

    But that last part is a total surprise - the idea is that aircraft that engaged in combat have declared their non-combat movement in the combat movement phase? That's a big statement.


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    @LouisXIVXIV Yeah, Revised/v2 OOB (but not LHTR) is the only game in which you are never allowed to move a same unit both in combat and non combat movement.

    What I understand is that first you resolve all battles, then you move to safety your attacking aeroplanes, after all battles are done (so, it's not like retreat, that it is decided at the end of each battle, possibly before starting the next one), which implies you sort of have a special non combat movement for fighting aeroplanes, happening before the regular non combat movement phase, if @Panther can confirm this.

    The other thing I wonder, @Panther, is if I can move immediately after combat fighters to empty sea zones, as long as I can move enough carriers to those sea zones in the subsequent non combat movement phase (I believe I can, but just want to be sure).


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    @Panther said in [Open] AA revised bug (AA-fire/casualty selection issues):

    @Cernel said in [Open] AA revised bug (AA-fire/casualty selection issues):

    @Panther Did it ever happen that, when you got hit, the bomber with 2 movement points left didn't die?...

    I did not test it that often. My tests were only to prove that there was an issue.

    However, good find, then!

    Right, I didn't mean that you have to sort out exactly how it is failing to work. But probably you should reword the "attacker cannot choose casualties (casualty apparently is taken out on a random basis), tested with factory-built-in AA gun against a bunch of bombers)", removing the mention about it being apparently random (as it doesn't appear random at all, to me). Point is that I'm almost sure we have two totally different bugs, one for v2 to v4 and the other one for v5/Global (not sure why not v1 too, if not; the properties for AA gun randomizations are very strange and apparently redundant, maybe I'll explain that better later).



  • @Cernel Yes, I scoured the manual and it looks to me like you are correct - the fighter's landing is considered part of the combat move! It also seems like the flight path has to be declared in advance of the battle (not sure). Another thing it reinforced is that a tank must blitz in the combat movement -- it cannot make a step in combat and another in non-combat. That's not how people have been playing. Pretty cool!

    The answer to your question directed to Panther is "yes", the rule book talks about that explicitly and actually that's where it was most clear to me that your other point was correct - it characterizes the fighter landing in the water as combat movement for the fighter!


  • Moderators

    @LouisXIVXIV said in [Open] AA revised bug (AA-fire/casualty selection issues):

    Another thing it reinforced is that a tank must blitz in the combat movement -- it cannot make a step in combat and another in non-combat. That's not how people have been playing. Pretty cool!

    This is currently already enforced, since a while.


  • Moderators Admin

    @Cernel

    But probably you should reword...

    I am tending to agree, but what still keeps me away from doing so is the result of
    https://forums.triplea-game.org/post/16633
    Here bombers with 1 and 4 movement points left were taken out.


  • Moderators Admin

    @Cernel In another V5-OOB test 2 hits were scored and the engine again removed bombers with 1 and 4 movement points left.
    v5test_4ncm.tsvg
    I was able to reproduce that scenario twice - while waiting for the AA to score three hits, what did not occur.
    So - with all caution - that seems to confirm your theory about a somehow systematic "take-out error".
    I will adjust the wording in the Github issue accordingly.


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    @Panther Yeah, I'm pretty sure every time you gets 2 hits in that same savegame you will always lose the bomber with 1 and 4 movement points left. The engine seems messed up in a very weird way.


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