NWO LHTR rules question
-
So I have been playing NWO with the LHTRcarrier option selected. Normally for LHTR (and newer A&A rulesets), you can move fighters with the assumption that they will land on a built carrier that will be placed later in the turn. However since combat-move occurs before build, NWO doesn't allow this. Now I was normally playing where you had to edit-move the fighters and then make sure to build and place the carriers as normal.
But it got me thinking, maybe it is a design choice to not allow this normal move with LHTR. Does anyone know if the LHTR are supposed to be modified to not allow movement, or is it just an engine issue and edit-move is acceptable.
-
@zoozoc I think nobody knows for certain. New World Order notes seem to imply that you cannot Combat move fighters if it is not assured (under regular dice rules) that they all can land outside of newly placed carriers. This can be deducted from the following rule: "It must be shown that all Fighters can land during Combat Move phase, and that any Carriers they will be landing on CAN move there DURING Combat Move phase, with legal movements." A carrier which will be on the board only since the Mobilize Units phase is certainly not able to move during the turn.
This already came up, so we clarified it in World At War: "combat movement moves cannot be validated assuming landing on yet to be placed Carriers".
It may even be that the original creator of the game (Sieg) never intended the option in question to be available: maybe the option was added to the game by someone else after the latest release made by the original creator.
-
Thanks. That makes sense. I guess initially I just assumed that the "LHTR" option meant that all the rules applied. But switching the combat/buy order seems to negate the one rule. But even if it didn't, like you said, the rules specifically say that fighters have to have carriers to land on during the combat phase.
-
Quoted from page 8 ver 2.0 LHTR: " A fighter without long range
technology may be able to move 4 spaces to a sea battle, but only if a carrier could be there by the conclusion of the mobilize units phase."To me this is saying that if a player has purchased a carrier and has stated that he will place that carrier in that sea zone, then up to two fighters may use that sea zone for landing, for combat movement and non-combat movement. This player, after purchasing 1 carrier, can not designate 2 different sea zones for fighters to land in nor can they assign 3 fighters to the designated sea zone.
With this understanding, and with the purchase phase coming after the combat movement phase and the attacking player states the they will purchase a carrier to place in the designated sea zones, then the move should be allowed. If the player dose not purchase enough carriers, then the defender can say that the attacker has performed an "illegal move", and they should discuss what action should be taken prior to combat.
But this is my 2 cents about these rules.
Cheers...
-
@wc_sumpton said in NWO LHTR rules question:
Quoted from page 8 ver 2.0 LHTR: " A fighter without long range
technology may be able to move 4 spaces to a sea battle, but only if a carrier could be there by the conclusion of the mobilize units phase."To me this is saying that if a player has purchased a carrier and has stated that he will place that carrier in that sea zone, then up to two fighters may use that sea zone for landing, for combat movement and non-combat movement. This player, after purchasing 1 carrier, can not designate 2 different sea zones for fighters to land in nor can they assign 3 fighters to the designated sea zone.
With this understanding, and with the purchase phase coming after the combat movement phase and the attacking player states the they will purchase a carrier to place in the designated sea zones, then the move should be allowed. If the player dose not purchase enough carriers, then the defender can say that the attacker has performed an "illegal move", and they should discuss what action should be taken prior to combat.
But this is my 2 cents about these rules.
Cheers...
The game notes always prevail over anything else. However, the notes state "The rules-set of the "Revised" version (ww2v2) of a well known board game is used as a basis. Deviations, extensions and exceptions from these are all listed in these Game Notes."
By doing so, the notes restrict themselves to apply to anything "Revised" only.
So it depends whether or not this "LHTR" optional rule is part of the "Revised" rules-set (meaning whether or not by "Revised" we include or exclude "Revised LHTR"). If it is, the notes do make exception to it, so you cannot validate combat movements using yet to be placed Carriers. If it is not, the notes do not make exception to it, so you can validate combat movements using yet to be placed Carriers.
Thinking again about it, I'm pretty sure the original author (Sieg) meant to refer only to the non-LHTR version of "Revised", so, on a second thought, I would say that combat movement moves can be validated assuming landing on yet to be placed Carriers. Unfortunately, this is the opposite of what we decided to rule when we re-wrote the notes of World At War (which is supposed to use the same general rules-set as New World Order) and of what the engine enforces.
@redrum Was the owner of World At War when we re-wrote its rules-set, and I believe he actually played at least some games with this option. Maybe he has an opinion on the matter.
-
I think I agree with everything written here. The notes seem to imply that it isn't allowed (the sentence about only legal rules being allowed besides the listed exceptions), but the notes could just be referring to the "Revised" ruleset. But at the end of the day its up to whomever is playing what the "rules" are anyways.
At this point we have decided (in the NWO game I am playing) to only allow "legal" moves in the engine and thus LHTR rules only apply for non-combat and placement. This just makes things "easier" (don't have to consider moves that the engine doesn't allow) and also better preserves the balance of the map as the differences between LHTR and Revised is not as large without this extra rule.
