VF (Germans) vs. TGC (Allies) | Original Europe, Game 9 with Balance 2.0
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Game History
Round: 5 Purchase Units - British British buy 4 artilleries and 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 8 PUs; Combat Move - British 1 artillery moved from Southern Italy to Northern Italy British take Northern Italy from Germans 1 transport moved from Central Mediterranean Sea Zone to Sicilian Sea Sea Zone 1 armour moved from Tunisia to Sicilian Sea Sea Zone 1 armour and 1 transport moved from Sicilian Sea Sea Zone to Western Mediterranean Sea Zone 1 armour moved from Western Mediterranean Sea Zone to Vichy France British take Vichy France from Germans 1 destroyer moved from Central Mediterranean Sea Zone to Western Mediterranean Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to North Sea Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from Atlantic Sea Zone to North Sea Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from United Kingdom to North Sea Sea Zone Combat - British Battle in North Sea Sea Zone British attack with 1 bomber and 2 destroyers; Russians loiter and taunt Germans defend with 2 submarines British roll dice for 1 bomber and 2 destroyers in North Sea Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/3 hits, 1.67 expected hits Germans roll dice for 2 submarines in North Sea Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 destroyer owned by the British lost in North Sea Sea Zone 2 submarines owned by the Germans lost in North Sea Sea Zone British win with 1 bomber and 1 destroyer remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4 Casualties for British: 1 destroyer Casualties for Germans: 2 submarines Non Combat Move - British Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from North Sea Sea Zone: 1 submarine EDIT: Adding units owned by British to North Sea Sea Zone: 1 destroyer EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Changing ownership of Netherlands-Belgium from Germans to British EDIT: Changing ownership of France from Germans to British EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 1 bomber moved from North Sea Sea Zone to Moscow 3 fighters moved from Karelia to Moscow 1 infantry moved from Turkestan to Moscow 2 transports moved from Atlantic Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone 1 armour moved from United Kingdom to English Channel Sea Zone 1 armour moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Netherlands-Belgium 1 armour moved from United Kingdom to English Channel Sea Zone 1 armour moved from English Channel Sea Zone to France 1 transport moved from Atlantic Sea Zone to North Sea Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to North Sea Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from Norway to North Sea Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from North Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Netherlands-Belgium 1 transport moved from Atlantic Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to English Channel Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Netherlands-Belgium Place Units - British 4 artilleries and 3 infantry placed in United Kingdom Turn Complete - British British collect 45 PUs; end with 53 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Germans regular : 0.33 British regular : 1.33 -
Game History
Round: 5 Purchase Units - Americans Americans buy 4 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 4 PUs; Combat Move - Americans 3 transports moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone 1 artillery and 5 infantry moved from United Kingdom to English Channel Sea Zone 1 artillery and 5 infantry moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Netherlands-Belgium 1 destroyer moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone 1 artillery and 5 infantry moved from United States to U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone 1 artillery, 5 infantry and 3 transports moved from U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone to Celtic Sea Sea Zone 1 artillery and 5 infantry moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to United Kingdom 1 bomber moved from Karelia to East Poland 1 fighter moved from Karelia to Moscow Combat - Americans Battle in East Poland Americans attack with 1 bomber Germans defend with 1 aaGun, 8 armour and 4 fighters Germans roll AA dice in East Poland : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 bomber in East Poland, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits Germans roll dice for 8 armour and 4 fighters in East Poland, round 2 : 4/12 hits, 5.33 expected hits 1 bomber owned by the Americans lost in East Poland 1 armour owned by the Germans lost in East Poland Germans win with 7 armour and 4 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -10 Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber Casualties for Germans: 1 armour Non Combat Move - Americans Place Units - Americans 4 artilleries and 4 infantry placed in United States 1 transport placed in U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from United States: 2 artilleries EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone: 1 transport EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from United States: 1 artillery EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone: 1 transport EDIT: Changing PUs for Americans from 4 to 0 EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turn Complete - Americans Americans collect 40 PUs; end with 40 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Americans regular : 0.33 Germans AA : -0.17 Germans regular : -1.33USA5.tsvg *I should have sent the UK bomber against E. Poland but statistically, sending three bombers would net two kills at best (AA gun) so I'm comfortable with this result. I feel that the round 4 loss of transports in particular explains the disparity. Let's take it across the finish line. I don't see any reason to do more than remove the infantry from Romania as you have recommended. I'm just not sure if that is necessary...
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TripleA Turn Summary: Germans round 6
TripleA Turn Summary for game: Europe Improved
Game History
Round: 6 Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 11 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Germans 20 armour, 8 artilleries and 53 infantry moved from Belorussia to Moscow 7 armour and 4 fighters moved from East Poland to Moscow 1 bomber moved from Germany to Moscow Combat - Germans Battle in Moscow Germans attack with 27 armour, 8 artilleries, 1 bomber, 4 fighters and 53 infantry British defend with 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 infantry; Americans defend with 1 fighter; Russians defend with 1 aaGun, 5 armour, 4 artilleries, 1 factory, 1 fighter and 70 infantry Russians roll AA dice in Moscow : 1/5 hits, 0,83 expected hits 1 fighter owned by the Germans lost in Moscow Germans roll dice for 27 armour, 8 artilleries, 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 53 infantry in Moscow, round 2 : 26/92 hits, 28,50 expected hits Russians roll dice for 5 armour, 4 artilleries, 1 bomber, 5 fighters and 73 infantry in Moscow, round 2 : 28/88 hits, 30,83 expected hits 28 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Moscow 24 infantry owned by the Russians, 1 bomber owned by the British and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Moscow Germans roll dice for 27 armour, 8 artilleries, 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 25 infantry in Moscow, round 3 : 17/64 hits, 23,83 expected hits Russians roll dice for 5 armour, 4 artilleries, 5 fighters and 48 infantry in Moscow, round 3 : 27/62 hits, 22,33 expected hits 2 artilleries owned by the Germans and 25 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Moscow 15 infantry owned by the Russians and 2 infantry owned by the British lost in Moscow Germans roll dice for 27 armour, 6 artilleries, 1 bomber and 3 fighters in Moscow, round 4 : 13/37 hits, 17,67 expected hits Russians roll dice for 5 armour, 4 artilleries, 5 fighters and 31 infantry in Moscow, round 4 : 9/45 hits, 16,67 expected hits 6 artilleries owned by the Germans and 3 armour owned by the Germans lost in Moscow 13 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Moscow Germans roll dice for 24 armour, 1 bomber and 3 fighters in Moscow, round 5 : 12/28 hits, 14,17 expected hits Russians roll dice for 5 armour, 4 artilleries, 5 fighters and 18 infantry in Moscow, round 5 : 16/32 hits, 12,33 expected hits 16 armour owned by the Germans lost in Moscow 12 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Moscow Germans roll dice for 8 armour, 1 bomber and 3 fighters in Moscow, round 6 : 5/12 hits, 6,17 expected hits Russians roll dice for 5 armour, 4 artilleries, 5 fighters and 6 infantry in Moscow, round 6 : 11/20 hits, 8,33 expected hits 1 bomber owned by the Germans, 3 fighters owned by the Germans and 7 armour owned by the Germans lost in Moscow 5 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Moscow 1 armour owned by the Germans retreated to Belorussia Russians win with 5 armour, 4 artilleries, 5 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -153 Casualties for Germans: 26 armour, 8 artilleries, 1 bomber, 4 fighters and 53 infantry Casualties for Russians: 69 infantry Casualties for British: 1 bomber and 3 infantry Non Combat Move - Germans Place Units - Germans 11 infantry placed in Germany Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 22 PUs; end with 22 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Russians regular : 0,50 Germans regular : -17,33 Russians AA : 0,17 -
GG, the Germans got their ass kicked lol.
I don't know, this game had more or less equal dice but the odds for Germany were still 70%
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@victoryfirst said in VF (Germans) vs. TGC (Allies) | Original Europe, Game 9 with Balance 2.0:
GG, the Germans got their ass kicked lol.
I don't know, this game had more or less equal dice but the odds for Germany were still 70%
Agreed - the odds are what the odds are. I'm putting that disparity on the midgame loss of transports for the Allies. I'm just REALLY worried about recommending taking off that infantry. It looks balanced - I'm more afraid of going too far than anything else. Go again with the inf removed from Romania? Are we staying on the same sides or switching? Love our games btw, very fun!
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Optionally what we could do is remove 1 or 2 infantry from a territory that is NOT Romania. The Romanian infantry actually has a massive impact as it makes any G1 attack on Ukraine impossible. It caused a large change to my G1 opener. I strongly think the bay of biscay and 12 IPCs is not enough for the game balance, so it might be an idea to remove let's say 2-4 infantry from Germany.
Yes, I love these games also. Let's play one more with he Romanian infantry removed but this time let's switch sides. I've been playing 11 games in a row as Germany. If I play one more as Germany I fear I will become a German myself
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@victoryfirst well, I really like the idea of removing the romania infantry. I think Russia should be allowed to have those units in Ukraine or Germany can take the risk of going easy on the Atlantic side to remove them by using extra fighters.
I feel like its the right direction. But if it turns out more is needed, my thought was to add a single UK infantry to Malta. This would complicate the German attack on that island but not make it impossible. It would allow the Allied player more freedom with his bid.
Good discussion though. I thought of removing a German tank instead of an infantry initally but youve won me over with the ROmania infantry
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You are right, I do feel without the G1 attack on Ukraine the game is less decided by dice. Those risky EF attacks have a lot of possible variety, a bit less than a powerful G1 Atlantic attack I feel. We can always experiment more with the various ideas.
Anyway, if you are OK to switch sides, my bid will be 4 infantry in Ukraine.
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@the_good_captain said in VF (Germans) vs. TGC (Allies) | Original Europe, Game 9 with Balance 2.0:
But if it turns out more is needed, my thought was to add a single UK infantry to Malta. This would complicate the German attack on that island but not make it impossible. It would allow the Allied player more freedom with his bid.
What Eric and I do is ignore Malta all together. I believe we both think that save-guarding Ukraine is much more important than saving the UK fighter. The Malta attack feels also awkward to do as the Germans in my opinion, because the Med fleet needs to kill the DD near Gibraltar and using a lone transport to kill the fighter with just an inf and an art is a bit too risky I find.
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@victoryfirst It might be a difference of opinion regarding best opener but I don't use the fleet to destroy the DD. I use a sub and a fighter or DD and a fighter and let the BB hit Malta.
But I'm also not a fan of leaving the Mediterranean as the Germans. I've seen it done and done it myself enough times to say I prefer to pick up the middle east IPC for the end game as the Germans. I think it fits better for the "six turn" time limit. I'm not 100% settled on that but getting close.
Eric has a very different allied playstyle compared to Theo, you or myself.
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You are definitely right about that. It's funny how we all have some key differences in our strategies and openers for both sides. Which one is the best is something I am wondering about.
Yes I am not sure either about leaving the Med. I was just testing that out to see if it works. I feel if the ships stay in the Med, the damage they can do is limited. Usually the Middle East is taken once Germany is about to attack Moscow, meaning there are not that many turns that the Allies have to pay all those IPCs. However if the game goes on past turn 6, taking the ME is definitely the best option. I need to try some games now where I stay in the Med before that question can have a proper answer.
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