@colin VGG 🙂

Cant get anything to work right. Sorry guys.

@colin cool sounds good our games are always fun and i am looking forward to getting another shot with axis. this weekend was kinda bad for me too went to a russian festival yesterday and drank too much and today i get to clean my house bc the landlord is showing up tomorrow. 😛

TripleA Turn Summary: British round 3

TripleA Turn Summary for game: New World Order, version: 1.8.7

Game History

Round: 3 Combat Move - British 1 Battleship, 2 Destroyers and 2 Transports moved from sz56 to sz49 3 Armours and 2 Infantrys moved from Fars to Iran 2 Infantrys moved from Iraq to Iran 4 Infantrys moved from Syria to Iran 1 Infantry moved from Saudi Arabia to Iraq 1 Transport moved from sz59 to sz56 1 EarlyFighter moved from W.Egypt to Tobruk 4 Infantrys moved from E.Scottland to sz23 1 Artillery moved from E.Scottland to sz23 1 Armour moved from S.Scottland to sz23 2 Infantrys moved from S.Scottland to sz23 1 Infantry moved from Dover to sz29 1 Artillery moved from Dover to sz29 1 Artillery, 1 Carrier, 2 EarlyFighters, 1 Infantry and 1 Transport moved from sz29 to sz26 1 Armour, 1 Artillery, 1 Battleship, 3 Destroyers, 6 Infantrys, 1 Submarine and 4 Transports moved from sz23 to sz26 1 EarlyFighter moved from York to sz26 1 EarlyFighter moved from York to sz26 1 Bomber moved from Norwich to sz26 3 Infantrys moved from Manchester to York 1 Artillery moved from Manchester to York 1 EarlyFighter moved from N.Canada to Iceland 1 Destroyer, 4 Infantrys and 2 Transports moved from sz1 to sz9 4 Infantrys moved from sz9 to Iceland Purchase Units - British British buy 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 2 EarlyFighters, 1 Submarine and 1 Transport; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; Combat - British Battle in Iran British attack with 3 Armours and 8 Infantrys Neutral defend with 1 AAGun, 1 Armour, 1 Factory and 3 Infantrys British roll dice for 3 Armours and 8 Infantrys in Iran, round 2 : 3/1 hits, 2.83 expected hits Neutral roll dice for 1 Armour and 3 Infantrys in Iran, round 2 : 2/1 hits, 1.50 expected hits 3 Infantrys owned by the Neutral and 2 Infantrys owned by the British lost in Iran British roll dice for 3 Armours and 6 Infantrys in Iran, round 3 : 2/1 hits, 2.50 expected hits Neutral roll dice for 1 Armour in Iran, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits 1 Armour owned by the Neutral lost in Iran British loses 0 PUs for violating Irans neutrality. British win, taking Iran from Neutral with 3 Armours and 6 Infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for British: 2 Infantrys Casualties for Neutral: 1 Armour and 3 Infantrys Battle in sz49 British attack with 1 Battleship, 2 Destroyers and 2 Transports Italians defend with 1 Battleship and 2 Destroyers British roll dice for 1 Battleship, 2 Destroyers and 2 Transports in sz49, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 1.67 expected hits Units damaged: 1 Battleship owned by the Italians Italians roll dice for 1 Battleship and 2 Destroyers in sz49, round 2 : 2/1 hits, 1.67 expected hits Units damaged: 1 Battleship owned by the British 1 Transport owned by the British lost in sz49 British roll dice for 1 Battleship, 2 Destroyers and 1 Transport in sz49, round 3 : 2/1 hits, 1.67 expected hits Italians roll dice for 1 Battleship and 2 Destroyers in sz49, round 3 : 2/1 hits, 1.67 expected hits 1 Transport owned by the British, 2 Destroyers owned by the Italians and 1 Destroyer owned by the British lost in sz49 British roll dice for 1 Battleship and 1 Destroyer in sz49, round 4 : 1/1 hits, 1.17 expected hits Italians roll dice for 1 Battleship in sz49, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 Battleship owned by the Italians lost in sz49 British win with 1 Battleship and 1 Destroyer remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18 Casualties for British: 1 Destroyer and 2 Transports Casualties for Italians: 1 Battleship and 2 Destroyers Battle in sz26 British attack with 1 Armour, 2 Artillerys, 1 Battleship, 1 Bomber, 1 Carrier, 3 Destroyers, 4 EarlyFighters, 7 Infantrys, 1 Submarine and 5 Transports Germans defend with 2 Transports British roll dice for 1 Submarine in sz26, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits British roll dice for 1 Battleship, 1 Bomber, 1 Carrier, 3 Destroyers, 4 EarlyFighters and 5 Transports in sz26, round 2 : 5/1 hits, 4.33 expected hits Germans roll dice for 2 Transports in sz26, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits Units damaged: 1 Battleship owned by the British 2 Transports owned by the Germans lost in sz26 British win with 1 Battleship, 1 Bomber, 1 Carrier, 3 Destroyers, 4 EarlyFighters, 1 Submarine and 5 Transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14 Casualties for Germans: 2 Transports Non Combat Move - British 1 Bomber moved from sz26 to Norwich 1 EarlyFighter moved from sz26 to Riga 1 EarlyFighter moved from sz26 to Riga Place Units - British 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Submarine and 1 Transport placed in sz56 1 EarlyFighter placed in sz56 British undo move 1. 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer and 1 Submarine placed in sz56 1 EarlyFighter placed in sz56 1 Transport placed in sz29 Turn Complete - British British collect 69 PUs; end with 70 PUs 2 units repaired.

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Italians regular : -0.00 Germans regular : 0.67 Neutral regular : 0.00 British regular : -0.50

Savegame

@colin got a few

Just doing another run, this time as Germany solo with everyone else controlled by the hard AI.

I think the strongest play from Germany is to slam into Russia, either pressing the Leningrad pocket via amphib or darting to Stalingrad with mech, then redirect West after the Russians are handled. The runner up would be doing it in the reverse order, with Sea Lion first to control the western approach by sea, then redirect East to focus entirely on Russia before they gain the upper hand. But just for kicks, and since it was a solo, we opted for a third way: launch an expeditionary force to mess with the minors! haha

Takes probably 4 or 5 transports to have much impact against any of the other Allies, and a fair amount of fuel just to move the transports, but its pretty entertaining. Fuel management I think is the most important thing to pulling it off, without just handing the game to the Soviets on a silver platter lol. I tried to build up the synth stockpile early on with a dozen or so additional green barrels to keep from burning out, since the first few rounds will tap all the reserves for sure.

After the North Sea Zone I think the Freetown Sea Zone is maybe the strongest for Axis to occupy with a transport fleet.

Takes a few turns to set up, but from that position Axis can threaten 6 Allied Factories and a couple Rally Points from a single sea zone. Hard for the Machine to defend all of them, so whichever ends up the weakest, Germany can just sweep them and then use production to set up a little colony to mess with Team Allies heheh.

In this one we sent 5 transports and the Battleship out to the South Atlantic and used the rest to shuck units towards the Soviets since we knew they'd be fierce. G had just enough juice to crash the party in Stalingrad, but then had to strafe back home to safety in East Prussia. Our AI Axis buddies are bit unreliable, so we've been planning to go it alone for the most part. Finland is probably toast without some reinforcements at the last possible minute. We'll probably have to save them, or maybe not lol. But anyhow you can see the lanes down there off the coast of West Africa in the save below... Basically gives G the choice to disrupt South America or Africa, whichever is the more weakly defended. Here I think South America looks like the juicier prize, so probably will go that way to stomp! But its fun for a change of pace on this map.

I noticed that AI Japan did purchase a new factory in Shanghai, so that's good to see. Probably most AI nations have more production than cash on hand so they don't really buy new factories, but I like how the rally points open up more possibilities and make some regions of the map and minor powers viable even if their main factory gets smoked hehe

2021-4-8-Iron-War Germany Solo Transports G5.tsvg

@malmessi trevan has a PR to fix the error

https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/9098

trevan created this issue in triplea-game/triplea open Show the sub retreat step even if a destroyer is present #9098

@colin got a somwhat biggie here

@colin once again great game, look forward to our future wars. 🙂

I am curious if there is any progress on this any more.

@shawb

is there any news as to when the next version is going to be ready?

Development is progressing very deliberate step by very deliberate step 😅
In other words, at this rate I might be able to finish an early beta version by the end of summer!
Yeah, I know.

As for rangers, I'm not yet entirely sure what I'm going to do to them, but I'm aware that they are too strong. (It's hard to miss y'all shouting at me! 😏 )

@LovePlayingAAA Good catch, it appears we missed a few updates on some of the HeavyDestroyers and will fix that in the next minor version.

ImprovedDestroyers and AdvancedDestroyer techs still exist and have been updated to make different improvements for destroyers now. This post outlines the sub/destroyer changes: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/493/total-world-war-december-1941-beta-2-8-0-5/392 (there were a few adjustments to that original vision).

The notes haven't been updated yet for 3.0 but are in-progress and hopefully be added shortly.

Please use the new TWW 3.0 for discussing the new version: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/1181/total-world-war-december-1941-3-0-0-0-now-available

Little one is a galley, big one is a man of war. Both can fight, I really dislike the instantly killed dedicated transports of some games.

ignore that sorry

@redrum: I wouldn't mind continuing this when you're less busy.

@ubernaut already there

So I have had some time away from the forum because of real life issues and work. But I can see that the Warcraft map has been play-tested regardless of my absence 🙂 Nice! Thanks for the feedback @bel246 @zlefin. Constructive feedback always motivates a mapmaker to keep on working on and fixing maps! To quickly state what engine is best:

For PvP I would recommend this version:
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/tag/2.6.22436
as it seems to be the last version with the - soon to be removed - “NEXT” and “PREV” unmoved unit buttons. These buttons are very good for ensuring that ALL unmoved units get attention during a player's turn, also allowing the player to shuffle back and forth between units during movement phase. (On a side note, I personally see this upcoming removal as an unnecessary setback for TripleA’s UI and play experience. But I might stand very alone with this opinion.)

For play against the AI, I see this version as best:
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/tag/2.6.22444
as this version (released just after the above) is the first engine with the important AI-update that prevents AI from stacking units in Horde capitals (and other territories with land canal attachments). An issue that always made the AI lose in the long run. Sadly, this engine version is also the first to have the “NEXT” and “PREV” unmoved unit buttons removed.

Q&A:
Anyway, to follow up on the development of this map, I can say that Warcraft War heroes is practically 99% done. The map notes are about 80% done and I am running out of map specific map issues to tackle. Let just try to address some of the recently posted issues:

@bel246 said:
“still quite a few items without tooltips and I can't figure out what they do. For example: Energy-Shard”
ItemTooltip.jpg
I don’t get it. There ARE tooltips for the items? Maybe they are not as self-explanatory as I think? Fore example the energy shard gives 1 Mana resource to the player each round. Perhaps players think that every item does something very special, but this is not the case. A few items are just resource generators that, unlike buildings and territories, can’t be lost to the enemy.

(Factories that are up for grabs) “If I capture them they get the maximum amount of raid damage even though I didn't attack with any shots set to bombard. Is that intended? Capturing factories built by players doesn't do that.”
Yes it is intentional. This is because it would be unrealistic that an enemy would let a fully functional production facility fall into the hands of an opponent. Also, it would be a too strong advantage for a victor to be able to build in a place just captured from the enemy. This rule/map behavior is also stated in the notes of "Bombardment", but not under "Factories", where I guess you might have looked, and where it is perhaps more logical to look 😉

“25 PU's to repair a factory seems quite harsh (…) Thats a lot more then the average unit I buy (20 for footman). A new factory costs 30 PU's.”
Well it is still cheaper than a new factory. Factories are meant to be cheap and destructible, unlike standard WW2 A&A. I hope this will let the “front” be more dynamic and get the players to make choices between bobarding the enemy factories or try to capture them.

“I played Alliance and I think they are a lot stronger then the Horde” “If you can get sea superiority before them they have a hard time taking it back because they are limited to one ship per turn. They have quite a few flying units but here I have another observations. The AI doesn't seem to take into account that they can land flying units on water. I have never seen them do that.” “If you control the sea you also have the advanced tactical option of naval raids”
Yes. The unequal access to sea seems to be a returning problem. I am not sure that the problem is big during Human vs Human play, but the AI clearly has problems handling the situation. I have been thinking of updating all map resources to only give the player 1 resource per turn, not 3. So a fish would give 1 food, not 3, an Oil Rig 1 Oil, not 3 etc. Maybe this would make controlling the sea leas important. However this would not help the AI in regards to tactically exploiting the sea. Any input on how to handle this would be nice.

“its not fair that all the Alliance factions have air units but not all of the Horde factions”
I hope that the unbalance in access to Air Units can be countered by adjusting unit prices and strengths of units. This will be ongoing balancing work.

“The level 3 trap of Ayanna reads: Lays a trap that kills one enemy unit. That sounds like a suicide attack. But actually isn't, you can kill 20 units with one trap if you get lucky with the dice.”
I can’t explain that. The code of the trap should only let it kill 1 enemy and then die if it actually has a hit:

<attachment name="unitAttachment" attachTo="Trap" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.UnitAttachment" type="unitType"> <option name="defense" value="1"/> <option name="isSuicideOnHit" value="true"/> </attachment>

There is not really any other code attached to the Trap unit. I wonder what could influence the trap?

“Frost spell of the gnomes is overpowered”
Maybe you are right. I guess I have to experience this in action to see it as a problem. I guess if you are not the player with the stuck units, it is just a comical situation 😛 But seriously, this is an issue to keep an eye on. My fist thought is, "but this also requires the the gnomen hero to keep pretty stationary and keep casting his Frost Spell at the same territory for the rest of the game."

@zlefin said:
“It seems odd how many of the territories are wholly undefended; it makes the early stage very much about sending out single units just to land grab as much as possible, at least for stuff that's not too near an enemy. And often even then just to grab artifacts.”
Well, this map clearly has inbuilt “stages” of play progression. A player starts out land-grabbing and also fighting lesser AI players, before finally meeting other major players. It was the hope that the player during early game would look at the map and go “that item is a must-have, therefore I ride towards it ASAP”, “That building is essential to reach before the enemy gets it” or “OK, with those buildings at my disposal, I will chose this and that Origin Skill”. There is a lot of randomness affecting early game, but I hope that it is ok and works.

“It seems weird that regular units generate a 'veteran' currency that gives free veteran units rather than upgrading regular units to veteran ones”
I struggled and still struggle with how to best implement a veterans and elites system that both made sense and could work for real. I did at one point want to have regular units upgrade to higher tier units by placing the upgrade on them, but I “dumbed” down the system for the current one. Honestly I can’t remember why, but I guess that I reached a wall (of a nature that I can’t remember. Probably a practical hindrance?) in regards to making the concept into reality. If anyone has an example of a working system of another map, please point at it.

“Found an odd bug … I have an outpost and a watch tower in my set of items to build. At StormGarde keep, it won't let me upgrade the watch tower into an outpost”
I managed to load your save game, and I see what you explain. But I have no explanation why one can’t have both types of units in the bank (a simple factory unit + an upgrade unit) and therefor not be able to place the upgrade. It would be cool if a developer could investigate. If I get around to it, I will at some point make an official bug report. But before this it would be nice if a person more experienced in XML could maybe identify if this is actually an XML or engine problem. (???)