EXP G40 Game 3 Trout vs JCat

[Trout]

@johnnycat Commissar/Mech Infantry/two Tanks

[Trout]

@johnnycat What do you see in your 1st Army Group box? In your screenshot, it's all there.

[Trout]

@johnnycat Game History

Round: 5

    Purchase Units - ANZAC
        ANZAC buy 2 infantry and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Combat Move - ANZAC
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 transport moved from 54 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from New Zealand to 63 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 63 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 54 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 46 Sea Zone to New Guinea
        EDIT: 1 1stSovietAG moved from Poland to 1st Army Group
        EDIT: 1 1stTankArmy moved from 1st Army Group to Poland
        EDIT: 1 2ndCorps moved from 1st Army Group to Poland
        EDIT: 9 infantry moved from 1st Army Group to Poland
        EDIT: 1 artillery moved from 1st Army Group to Poland

    Combat - ANZAC
        Battle in New Guinea
        Trigger Remove All RussiansParaBoost: has removed 1 russian_paraBoost owned by Russians in Bulgaria
        Trigger Remove All RussiansParaBoost: has removed 1 russian_paraBoost owned by Russians in Slovakia Hungary
        Trigger Remove All ItaliansParaBoost: has removed 1 italian_paraBoost owned by Italians in Persia
        Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 115 Sea Zone
        Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 97 Sea Zone

    Non Combat Move - ANZAC
        Trigger Wolfpack at115 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 115 Sea Zone
        Trigger RussiansParaBoost atBulgaria: Russians has 1 russian_paraBoost placed in Bulgaria
        Trigger ItaliansParaBoost atPersia: Italians has 1 italian_paraBoost placed in Persia
        Trigger RussiansParaBoost atSlovakia Hungary: Russians has 1 russian_paraBoost placed in Slovakia Hungary
        Trigger Wolfpack at97 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 97 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from India to Java
        1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 1 transport moved from 54 Sea Zone to 62 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from New South Wales to Queensland
        1 artillery moved from New South Wales to Queensland

    Place Units - ANZAC
        1 transport placed in 62 Sea Zone
        2 infantry placed in New South Wales

    Turn Complete - ANZAC
        ANZAC collect 14 PUs; end with 15 PUs

    Combat Move - French

    Combat - French
        Trigger Remove All RussiansParaBoost: has removed 1 russian_paraBoost owned by Russians in Bulgaria
        Trigger Remove All RussiansParaBoost: has removed 1 russian_paraBoost owned by Russians in Slovakia Hungary
        Trigger Remove All ItaliansParaBoost: has removed 1 italian_paraBoost owned by Italians in Persia
        Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 115 Sea Zone
        Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 97 Sea Zone

    Non Combat Move - French
        Trigger Wolfpack at115 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 115 Sea Zone
        Trigger RussiansParaBoost atBulgaria: Russians has 1 russian_paraBoost placed in Bulgaria
        Trigger ItaliansParaBoost atPersia: Italians has 1 italian_paraBoost placed in Persia
        Trigger RussiansParaBoost atSlovakia Hungary: Russians has 1 russian_paraBoost placed in Slovakia Hungary
        Trigger Wolfpack at97 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 97 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - French

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

74778a5e-82b5-4914-85eb-241761424359-trout-cat-game-3-f5.tsvg
Here is the F5 turn with the AG back in its box and showing the two armies plus the 14 dudes and one arty. Hope this helps

[JohnnyCat]

@trout Yes Sir My screenshots are all there is.

Now you can see my confusion I hope. I still don't know what a "1st [RED STAR]" marker is. This is the one in the caucuses

And I never saw any "1st Army Group" - only the marker I saw for what seemed to be 5 tanks and a super tank leader. Again I still cannot connect how those 9 inf and 1 art are anywhere on the board let alone in Poland

Again I BELIEVE you of course. I'm just sharing what I saw. And more confusion is that "1st Corps" box. I don't see it anywhere.

And why would "1st Army Group" that right side box have anything in common with those boxes on the left that say "1st Corps" "1st Tank" "2nd corps"

this really confused me and the game is complicated enough without me having to track down game notes and rules that are not effecting me until they do... Hence my disdain for these boxes and markers... of course, if they were clear that would be fine and I will try to figure this out and why I don't have any other markers than the screenshots I posted here.

Again I don't want to be a whinny little beeotch,lol, but I truly had no idea what was in that marker in Poland and before I do German 6 again - which I have to believe is doable as you pointed out, I will load this game on my PC and see if I can make any better sense of that top level boxes thing and the markers on the game board.

Thanks for being patient with me.

[beelee]

@johnnycat

let me know what you don't understand in my explanation of "1st Corps" in Caucasus 4 posts above

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee Thank

This is NUTS I still don't see any of this stuff

If I hover I get nothing but that box - oh so "1st [Red Star}" shows a box that says, "1stCoprs" so that explains that

But that marker in Poland only says "1st Army Group" and that ONLY has 9 inf and 1 art. Nowhere are those five tanks and I still don't see how that group with the commissar is in poland

Where is "second corps" where is "1st tank"

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee Thank again mate for stepping in here. I deeply appreciate it.

Dare I even ask about this? ahahahahaha

[beelee]

@johnnycat

yes I will explain 1st Army Group as well but as per your request addressed Caucasus first

Read through the Captain's rules and understand how they work on the physical face to face board.

The triplea Game Notes assume understanding of those rules and then explains how triplea implements them. Therefore triplea notes don't explain the actual rules itself for the most part.

Edit
So for "1st Soviet Army Group" it is represented by the symbol in POL.

At Game start the 1st Soviet AG symbol is in the "1st Army Group" Box. In this shot you can see both 1st and 2nd AG ( Army Group ) symbols in their respective Boxes.

To form a AG you need 2 Armies or Corps. Any combination works. So 2 Corps or 1 Corps 1 TankArmy or 2 Tank Armies. Plus an additional 10 land units.

Page 47

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jI_1JdIC-1KiTihBICJAbtX3GpVYnNgf/view

So when a Corps or Army forms, as in the 1st Corps example in Cauc, instead of moving their symbol to the board, you move it to the AG they are going to be part of.

Then the additional 10 land units join them in the AG Box and the AG symbol is moved to the board.

So in your game 1st Soviet AG, it's Box is called 1st Army Group for brevity, has the 1st Tank Army and 2nd Corps plus 9 Inf and 1 Arty.

A Tank Army will always consist of the same units. 5 Tanks and 1 Tank General. For 2nd Corps, you go to the 2nd Corps box and see what is in it.

In this case 3 Tanks plus the Commisar. Which all adds up to TankGeneral 9 Tanks Commisar Arty 9 Inf for the total number of units in AG 1.

Army Groups will usually have 20 total units.

Corps and Waffen Armies will always have 4.

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee I have a copy of the Captains rules tattooed on the back of my hands, my retinas and every window I have open...

Yet I have never seen any mention of these boxes.

I DO understand that basic concept that Army Groups (Page 47) An Army Group consists of:

• 2 Armies
• 10 land based combat units

But, I need to understand how the triplea implementation is. I get that that First Corps is called "1st" and a red star... easy enough.

But First Army Group is not defined and while there are units in those upper level boxes I cannot see how "First Army Group" is defined. Unless it just implied that anything up there is in the First Army Group.

What might be helpful is to see one of your screen shots of Poland Turn 5 so that I can see what you see.

[beelee]

@johnnycat

as mentioned previously page 8 of the captain's rulebook https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jI_1JdIC-1KiTihBICJAbtX3GpVYnNgf/view

for how he explains the boxes. His terminology may be slightly different but

[beelee]

@johnnycat said in EXP G40 Game 3 Trout vs JCat:

I have a copy of the Captains rules tattooed on the back of my hands, my retinas and every window I have open...

yes i know exactly what you mean

Going gaming back in an hour or so for other questions

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee OK so I guess I got it but that entire text in the box is not displayed on my game. This maybe is because it goes away when units are added or some Mac thing. And there is some new second version of "1st Army Group" to the right side that apparently has the group in the Caucuses.. And that is thoroughly confusing.

Anyway I gather that EVERYTHING (except the confusing issue of the marker in the Caucasus) up on the upper boxes is inside that symbol in Poland - had I known that I probably would have done even turn 3 differently , lol.

But ok @Trout has been kind enough to let me fix this so I will redo that Germany turn with the knowledge that there are a million hostiles on the doorstep as opposed so just so 6 unit recon group as I had first thought.

Meanwhile, however, in the Caucusses is some random group that IS NOT PART OF ANY ARMY GROUP Right?

This thing just says "1ST" and has a big red star. So WHERE IS THAT on the upper boxes? I thought that was the 9 inf and 1 art

But Trout says something else and I just don't get this.

PLEASE NOTE I DO UNDERSTAND PAGE 47 and the concept of groups and all that.

What I DO NOT understand is how these markers map to units and what sense, if any, there is in the layout of the units and the boxes. WHY IS THERE A "1St" [red star] that is in the Caucasus and what is inside that marker and how do I easily find this in the upper boxes? That part IS THOROUGHLY confusing.

I love this game but I'm a chess player so I tend to need to see the pieces or some very clear system and so far I cannot find any sensible way (sensible to me) to see that mapping of units and labels. And again, this may be some Mac version issue or maybe Triple just loses those key labels or renames them once pieces are added to the upper boxes.

THANK YOU again both of you. I am SO HAPPY that I made the choice to play the bad guys this time. Despite not purchasing any of the shiny special units so far I am still impressed by all this complexity. I am rather drawn to it actually.

[beelee]

@johnnycat

This is the map at Game Start. Note 1st Corps and the symbol in it.

Closeup

Red Star represents Russia. 1st represents 1st Corps. Hover on any image you aren't sure of what it is and you will receive additional information.

So when the 1st Corps symbol is on the map, it means the units in 1st Corps Box are in that TTy.

I really don't know how to explain it any better.

[Trout]

@johnnycat There's no "AG" on that circle thing in Caucasus so it's just the 1st Corps. In the 1st Corps box you can see two tanks and a mech infantry so that along with the Commissar is all that is there.

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee Yes I see that ON YOUR MAP hahahaha

Too bad it's not on mine.

But ok so now I understand there are 23 units in Poland under that marker

And under the Caucasus marker is 2 tanks a commissar and 1 mech. WHY That stuff is located in the upper boxes amidst the First Army Group stuff is rather confusing and unintuitive but at least I got it.

Or do I?

Please confirm that there are 23 units in the poland marker and 4 units in the Caucasus marker. THANK YOU SO MUCH BEE!!!

[JohnnyCat]

@trout Yes thank you. I am redoing Italy since I would not have moved east knowing that there were mech units in the Caucasus.

I don't want to complain ok? I just want to learn.

But when I see something that is very counter intuitive to me I feel I should at least mention it. And this is the first time that I have used these BOXES and it's just required me to slog through all this - so thank you again for the patience.

[beelee]

@johnnycat

There are 20 units in the 1st AG in POL. An additional 5 Inf are outside the AG in POL

Edit
learning moving in and out of the Boxes is one of the most difficult things for triplea play. It usually takes 2-3 games before one starts to get comfortable with it.

You are starting at a greater learning curve due to the limited number of OutOfBox game experience you have. So you are learning those rules as well, which will make it more difficult initially.

You are improving

The AG symbol next to AG 1 in the Boxes is AG 2. Has the same characteristics as AG 1

[JohnnyCat]

@Trout @beelee
I have read through page 18,19 etc about paratroopers but I cannot find any information in the rules for the word, "Boost" so I do not understand why paratroops turn into two guys: A regular guy and a doppelgänger guy with a big red circle (I recall this being called a boost).

Can you please tell me where to find this information or what to search for?

[Trout]

@johnnycat Yes, no problem changing your Italy turn

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee OK yes 20 NOT 23 like I said. I keep getting fooled by that other group up there that is actually in the Caucasus