EXP G40 Game 3 Trout vs JCat
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@johnnycat Yes, you have to put it underground before making it heavy. If you make it heavy first, you cannot put it underground later
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@trout This is NOT working mate.
The German player pays 3 IPC in the Purchase &
Repair Units phase to upgrade the industrial
complex to Heavy Industry Production.
The German player immediately places the
Heavy Industry 2 Units marker underneath the
industrial complex in Berlin, to show that it can
now produce a maximum of 12 units in each turn
– beginning from the same turn that the industrial
complex is upgraded.Lets forget about underground
I just want to make the Northern Italy factory Heavy so I can build 12 same turn.
So I purchase the upgrade for 3 - it has a little orange dot - then finish purchase and go to placement and that factory upgrade is not there.
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@trout I will just use edit and manually convert the factory to heavy and then take off the 3 IPU.
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I broke it into two files so that you can see the steps clearly.
First the buys:
GERMAN 9 BUYS AND PLACEMENT.tsvg
Then the edit - removing the old factory and putting in the new Heavy and taking 3 cents from Hitler
GERMAN 9 AFTER BUY NORTH ITALY FIX_ .tsvg
If this is cool I will get to the rest of it - there are no battles actually - well maybe a sub and two tiny things but nothing else - the complexity arose from me tying to figure out what pieces get upgraded in Berlin in the pre phase and figuring out what to buy without getting crushed by you Sir.!
A DEVASTATING result that defies all odds but oh well - I lose a big bonus because I did not sent enough suckers to take Egypt. DARN DARN FK
I will post the final in a few minutes - again my apologies but I found this turn to really push me to the limits ...
I'll need 10 minutes
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@johnnycat That's fine. I think I may know why it's doing that. Since you manually converted units to G, maybe the Triple A engine believes you never did the Takeover. If that is the case, you cannot upgrade the factory. So yes, doing it by Edit is fine. If my theory is correct, then we may need to edit IPC bank account for G after each turn as Triple A may not calculate the IPC bonuses correctly.
If that is the case, I don't mind continuing the game since it's still technically a learner's game. But next time you play Axis, you will want to learn how to do the Takeover. It's complicated in Triple A and took me 2-3 times before I finally got it right also
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@trout Good Point - but because of my combat failure in Egypt I miss out on the juicy bonus this turn...
Hmm, maybe I will return. Mein Fuhrer's wife wants that Sphinx thing
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@trout The funny thing is that now I READ EVERYTHING MANY TIMES..... because I don't want to be lazy
At first I asked you guys way too many questions... I was lazy - now I study first. My apologies for being so lazy.
And I like I said I planned this the entire game because I feel it a necessary tool when playing the Axis
OK OK I gotta get this non-com phase done because it is so important...
You still have a HUGE advantage and I know you know that
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@johnnycat I have the advantage yes
But I fear that I may get this one and maybe 1-2 others before you become the Dominator. Not fair that you think of things in your first game to where now Beelee and I even refer to it as the JC Gambit. I have a Master's Degree from an Ivy League school even (not saying which) so I am no dummy. But you really do have skills at this. -
Here is the save - needed to use Edit but here are all the relevant game notes:
Trout vs Cat GAME 3_GERMANY 9 FINAL.tsvg
GAME NOTES:
LAND MINES:
I sent 3 Land Mines to the "front" so they are armed and sitting between Slovakia and East Poland. There exists a Russian version in Changer for that mine but almost never the versions I seek so those 3 land mines are yellow.
Another land mine is sitting in Southern Italy ARMED but again, I cannot find the correct mine. There is only 1.
4 ARMED NAVAL MINES
4 Armed NAVAL MINES are waiting to blow up 4 ships trying to sneak past Gibraltar (heehee)This was a difficult turn but it helped me immensely and I should be faster in the future. Funny how those upper boxes make sense now and are easy....
I also created my first Waffle House group and a Panzer Group. And I wasted money on a Waffle House armor upgrade but hopefully I will do that next turn if you don't wipe me out.
Another interesting thing is that the mines available in Changer actually "Change" from turn to turn. I've tested this and this is very weird behavior. I also cannot read one third of the text because they are listed with a font color that is almost invisible.
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yea for some reason Changer units don't stay in the same place after you first edit them. They will usually move to the left. Really messed with Panzer and I until we figured it out.
Just use a generic one and use Comment Log what it's defending.
My guess is I coded it so Germany can only place upgrades in their starting Fctry. N Italy obviously isn't one. Would have to check with the Captain if they can upgrade Italian original Fctry s after Takeover.
I'm not sure. I'll read through it again after bit. If that is indeed the case, I will fix it for next update.
Edit
OK I will fix this for next update.
Also check that the double bonus works if you take any of the Oil Objectives. I think it should but not 100% certain since the Token wasn't used
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@johnnycat I am attacking Slovakia - big surprise. I rolled three LMs via DiceBot and you got one hit. I sent the results to Beelee because I don't know how to send them to you. But he can vouch for the results if you have questions
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JohnnyCat rolls with the same handle over there
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@johnnycat Game History
Round: 9 Purchase Units - Russians Russians buy 3 Mass_Tankss, 1 TankDestroyerFS, 3 TotalWar_Tank_2s, 2 artilleries, 1 elite and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 16 PUs; 0 AirLendLease; 3 TankLendLease; Politics - Russians Russians spend 2 PUs on Political Action: Political Action Russians To War With JapaneseTurn9 Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With JapaneseTurn9: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Russians from Neutrality to War Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With JapaneseTurn9: Changing Relationship for Russians and Chinese from Neutrality to Allied Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With JapaneseTurn9: Changing Relationship for Russians and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly Combat Move - Russians Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRussians: Russians has 1 R_Europe_Rail and 2 Russian_Rails placed in Russia Trigger ItalyUser: Changer has 1 ItalyUser placed in Southern Italy Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Russians takes Bulgaria from Germans EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Note to players Japanese: The Godless Communists Attack Japan! After Russian Combat Move Japan May Immediately Place the Amount of PUs it Cost Russia to Declare War in Units in any Non Combat Japanese Controlled Terr.... 1 infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Tsinghai Chinese take Tsinghai from Japanese 4 infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Kansu EDIT: 1 3rdCorps moved from Novosibirsk to 3rd Corps EDIT: 2 armour moved from 3rd Corps to Kansu EDIT: 1 guard_infantry moved from 3rd Corps to Kansu EDIT: 1 Soviet_Commisar_3 moved from Overflow to Kansu EDIT: 1 russian_para moved from Caucasus to Bulgaria 2 Army_Conscripts moved from Baltic States to Poland 1 Army_Conscript moved from Eastern Poland to Romania 1 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Romania EDIT: 1 2ndTankArmy moved from Eastern Poland to 2nd Tank EDIT: 1 Tank_General moved from 2nd Tank to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: Russians undo move 12. EDIT: 1 1stPanzerArmy moved from Slovakia Hungary to 1st Panzer EDIT: 5 armour moved from 1st Panzer to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 Panzer_General3 moved from GermanFlow to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: Russians undo move 10. EDIT: 1 1stWaffenArmy moved from Slovakia Hungary to 1st Waffen EDIT: 3 waffen_infantrys moved from 1st Waffen to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 Waffen_Oberst moved from 1st Waffen to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 ArmyGroupActive moved from Army Group Centre to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 ArmyGroupActive moved from Belarus to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 5 armour moved from 2nd Tank to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 Tank_General moved from 2nd Tank to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 5 armour moved from 1st Tank to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 Tank_General3 moved from Overflow to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 1stTankArmy moved from Eastern Poland to 1st Tank 1 infantry moved from Karelia to Finland Russians take Finland from Germans 1 TankDestroyerFS moved from Belarus to Slovakia Hungary 1 Elitearmour moved from Belarus to Slovakia Hungary 4 armour moved from Belarus to Slovakia Hungary 1 elite moved from Eastern Poland to Romania 2 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Slovakia Hungary 1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Romania 1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Romania 3 guard_infantrys moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 2 artilleries and 24 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 2 artilleries moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 16 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 6 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 2 artilleries and 23 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 1 infantry moved from Amur to Korea Russians take Korea from Japanese Combat - Russians Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Changing PUs for Japanese from 67 to 69 EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Battle in Poland Russians attack with 2 Army_Conscripts, 1 armour and 1 tactical_bomber Germans defend with 1 infantry Russians win, taking Poland from Germans with 2 Army_Conscripts, 1 armour and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Battle in Romania Russians attack with 1 Army_Conscript, 1 elite, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber Germans defend with 1 infantry Russians win, taking Romania from Germans with 1 Army_Conscript, 1 elite, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Battle in Slovakia Hungary Changer loiter and taunt; Russians attack with 1 ArmyGroupActive, 1 Elitearmour, 1 FighterAce, 1 TankDestroyerFS, 1 Tank_General, 1 Tank_General3, 16 armour, 2 artilleries, 2 fighters, 3 guard_infantrys, 23 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers Germans defend with 1 ArmyGroupActive, 1 PanzerJagerFS, 1 Panzer_General3, 2 Panzer_Grndrss, 1 Waffen_Oberst, 1 aaGun, 9 armour, 2 elites, 3 fighters, 1 german_para, 23 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 3 waffen_infantrys; Changer defend Russians win, taking Slovakia Hungary from Germans with 1 Elitearmour, 1 FighterAce, 1 TankDestroyerFS, 1 Tank_General, 1 Tank_General3, 6 armour, 2 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 61 Casualties for Russians: 1 ArmyGroupActive, 10 armour, 2 artilleries, 3 guard_infantrys and 23 infantry Casualties for Germans: 1 ArmyGroupActive, 1 PanzerJagerFS, 1 Panzer_General3, 2 Panzer_Grndrss, 1 Waffen_Oberst, 1 aaGun, 9 armour, 2 elites, 3 fighters, 1 german_para, 23 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 3 waffen_infantrys Battle in Kansu Russians attack with 1 Soviet_Commisar_3, 2 armour, 1 guard_infantry and 4 infantry Japanese defend with 2 infantry Russians win, taking Kansu from Japanese with 1 Soviet_Commisar_3, 2 armour, 1 guard_infantry and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry Casualties for Japanese: 2 infantry Trigger Russians Conquer Japanese Territory By Mongolia: Setting switch to false for conditionAttachment_Mongolia_May_Change_To_Russians_Control_Switch attached to Russians Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 95 Sea Zone Non Combat Move - Russians Trigger Wolfpack at95 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 95 Sea Zone Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRemoveRussians: has removed 2 Russian_Rails owned by Russians in Eastern Poland Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRemoveRussians: has removed 1 R_Europe_Rail owned by Russians in Buryatia 1 infantry moved from Buryatia to Amur 1 armour moved from Yenisey to Buryatia 1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Novgorod 1 fighter moved from Romania to Belarus 1 tactical_bomber moved from Romania to Belarus 2 fighters moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland 2 tactical_bombers moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland 1 2ndCorps moved from Baltic States to Karelia 1 tactical_bomber moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland 1 FighterAce moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland 4 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland 1 artillery moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland 1 elite moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland 1 elite moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine 3 armour moved from Russia to Rostov 3 armour moved from Russia to Western Ukraine 1 Russian_Rail and 1 artillery moved from Russia to Eastern Poland 1 Russian_Rail moved from Russia to Urals 1 Russian_Rail and 1 armour moved from Urals to Eastern Poland 1 russian_para moved from Russia to Caucasus 2 russian_paras moved from Russia to Eastern Poland 1 R_Europe_Rail and 1 elite moved from Russia to Buryatia EDIT: 1 guard_infantry moved from Kansu to 3rd Corps EDIT: 2 armour moved from Kansu to 3rd Corps EDIT: 1 3rdCorps moved from 3rd Corps to Kansu EDIT: 1 Soviet_Commisar_3 moved from Kansu to Overflow 1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Baltic States 1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Karelia Place Units - Russians 3 Mass_Tankss, 3 TotalWar_Tank_2s and 1 elite placed in Russia 1 TankDestroyerFS placed in Belarus 1 artillery and 1 infantry placed in Belarus 1 artillery and 1 infantry placed in Russia Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Slovakia Hungary: 1 Tank_General EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Trigger MassTanksPlace3: has removed 3 Mass_Tankss owned by Russians in Russia Trigger RussiansTotalWarTankPlaceRussia6: has removed 3 TotalWar_Tank_2s owned by Russians in Russia Trigger MassTanksPlace3: Russians has 3 armour placed in Russia Trigger RussiansTotalWarTankPlaceRussia6: Russians has 3 armour placed in Russia Turn Complete - Russians Trigger RussiansParaBoost atBulgaria: Russians has 1 russian_paraBoost placed in Bulgaria Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 3 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 6 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,5,5,6,1,1,3,5,3,2,1,6,4,3,2,5,2,3,3,1,4,5,4,3,1,2,5,6,1,4,4,3,6 Russians collect 48 PUs (3 lost to blockades); end with 62 PUs Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 67 PUs Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 15 PUs; end with 82 PUs96c9efab-e2f0-4fa3-ae2b-9c275cc26f2f-trout-cat-game-3-r9.tsvg Forgot to remove one LM. I did remove the Commie it blew up. By the way, you accidentally purchased carrier-based G planes and put them in your territories. They can only operate on carriers. But let's just let it go and do it correct the next game. I am okay with that.
Lastly, I declared war on Japan and boosted your bank account by 2 rubles in doing so. Speaking of Japan, their turn now!
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Hey mate that was so far off what I expected, that I need to spend some time analyzing this
I will want to clean up some key issues as well. Like I read about the Me109 and nowhere does it say those planes cannot be used - those were critical to my plan actually but if I was wrong I sure want to know.
Here is what I read: "Germany can produce Aircraft Carrier Based
Fighter Plane units.
They can be produced at any factory site that the
German player controls from the start of that turn.
They operate as any other Aircraft Carrier Based
Fighter and can be used in any Theatre of
Operations that the German player wishes."So is there some deeper meaning by "they operate as any other ..."?
I've lots more but first I will ensure that I understood the number of units. Because yesterday I felt like I finally got it - but I look at the board now and some things still make so sense. For example: Where did my 1st panzer go? How is his general still in the upper box?
Where is the Berlin Army group that was supposed to easily counter attack if you took it with the predicted 3 units...
Why are you still showing a panzer group in the upper boxes?
Again, thank you and remember this is a TRAINING LEARNING game - we are not trying to outsmart each other here - and this is the first game that I finally got to these boxes !!!
So I request to look over this more closely and if I find some big issues maybe just redo this one too.
Again I stress this is serious learning for me so I don't skimp, but it NOT a competition type game and if it was you won it Turn 2 or 3 for sure.
But first I ask for clarification on those ME109s and the current disposition of units on the map since it seems missing things..
Have a great Hump Day
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@johnnycat said in EXP G40 Game 3 Trout vs JCat:
So is there some deeper meaning by "they operate as any other ..."?
Hi Cat
Yea so the yanks and JPN both have Naval Ftrs page 31 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jI_1JdIC-1KiTihBICJAbtX3GpVYnNgf/view
it's a little involved but basically Naval Ftrs can only operate from CVs. The only time they can be on land is if they can't land on a damaged CV and then they can't do anything, cargo for game purposes, until a undamaged CV is available for them to land on.
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@beelee ok. that's needed to know. but what about when they get placed? which is the issue here really. the rules state they can be produced in factory !
so for 1 turn for sure they not on the carriers
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@beelee Dear Yoda B
@trout said:Again I just need to clear up some stuff so thank you in advance for helping: QUESTION ABOUT FULL FACTORY BUILDING OPTIONS
Trout said: "@johnnycat It's in the rules but you cannot put it underground and upgrade it in the same turn. Both actions are done in 1st phase placement"
Bee said: "yea you can purchase and upgrade same turn. Have to do a little creative editing. If you make a Fctry Hvy and then go underground it loses the Hvy Upgrade."
What I am trying to understand is what options I had for making a strong factory in Slovakia this specific game and Germany turn 9 which we are discussing?
Variables are factory starting game there
size
above or undergoundand loosing bonuses I guess when putting underground.
This is why I ended up with the Northern Italy factory builds but If I could have built a large factory and used it in Slovakia or even the other places that might have been better.
I was also tempted to build factories in Persia !!! I bet that would be fun. But again I was not sure. If I could have build a factory and an upgrade so that I built 4 units that turn, again, that would be essential to know.
THANK YOU
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no they place directly on the CVs. You need the CVs in order to place them. Idk if triplea still allows to place in the Fctry or not. I think I fixed it. For JPN and USA only though.
Idk if I did for the reich and UK though
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@beelee OK I take your word as Gospell
But the rules Page 55 say the following:
"They can be produced at any factory site that the
German player controls from the start of that turn."But ok. I will move on - those fighters should never have been bought and placed. THANK YOU for that.
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I don't want us to get lost in too many things but I also need to learn these factory building rules because I spent hours and still appear to have gotten it wrong
You guys are telling me the opposite yes? Or am I misreading ?
Trout said: "@johnnycat It's in the rules but you cannot put it underground and upgrade it in the same turn. Both actions are done in 1st phase placement"
Bee said: "yea you can purchase and upgrade same turn. Have to do a little creative editing. If you make a Fctry Hvy and then go underground it loses the Hvy Upgrade."
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