EXP G40 Game 3 Trout vs JCat
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@johnnycat 1st Panzer - you are G so nobody would do anything with that unless you did. For my two Tank Armies. One is in Slovakia and the other died in the battle. That’s why you only see one Tank General in Slovakia
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so for the soviets, they left or moved their "inactive" TG , has the blue dot, in it's Box as the "Active" one , red dot, is on the board.
Only one or the other should be on the board. I'll check 1st Pnzr in a moment
Edit
So 1st Panzer moved to Slovakia and died fighting for the Fuhrer and a Greater German Reich.The red dot was moved to the board for battle. If the red dot one is killed, then his corresponding blue dot one in the Box need to die to.
It's a little busy and we are getting used to the new system. We used to just edit them in and out and that may be easier for some.
It's a preference thing for moving the "Active" and "Inactive" Commanders on to the board.
So the blue dot in 1st Panzer should be removed
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@trout @beelee
Fiend Marshal Tasty Fish,I've been working with B to figure this out but wanted to keep you in the loop
My entire issue with this game has been being able to actually "play it".
If there are too many "well that does not work correctly so use the editor" clauses, I may have to conclude the game unplayable (to me). But I am not giving up.
But since, as you said, this is a practice game and you agreed to let me redo turn Italy 3 I was able to finally learn those upper boxes.
Now at turn 8-9 the issue is factories and odds. I don't mind extreme dice - was goes around comes around. So losing two bombers to a snake eyes roll that you do, hahahaha. And I bet we both experienced those.
But when the most central territory and battle is set at 15 % and less and I spend 5 DAYS planning and you WIN IT HANDILY, I check out.
And while redoing this turn would help that would only be acceptable after first understanding the basic concept so that I don't just repeat the same problem
So please take a journey with me back in time.... by using the history view and you were see this battle shown here:
That 18% is BEST CASE; mostly it was one digit.
So I need to know what you were seeing and why you would attack in such a low odds situation.
Maybe you do attack at such low odd regularly ?
Again I might still win this game and have already played out the next two turns so I don't care about winning. this game could very well continue but I need to learn this because if I cannot assess the basics I cannot play.
An example of what I know is Egypt - you blew it all up and left for good reasons! Had you known I was not that into it maybe you would redo that but still we both looked at it, saw the situation, and you made a reasonable call.
But in Slovakia I am not so sure. so I need to know if you saw better odds and if so, then what my factory building options were because I have been asking about that for a couple days and not quite learning what I need (my bad questions I am sure).
Were I to think you had ANY chance, I would have just poured more units into it but really I would have wanted to factory build - and that is where half of my knowledge hole is.
So please help me out and tell me what you saw that got you to tell yourself, "Oh yea I am jumping on this attack,"
And what you would have done were you me - considering that you would have better assessed the threat than I did. I literally wrote it off as a no way attack or if so you might have 1 guy left..
If I thought there was a threat At very least I could pump 10 more dudes there. But if I understand the factory making thing better I would want to place my 12 inf Total War guys there - that was the point in upgrading that factory in Northern Italy after all because Total War requires it.
Thank you for being patient and I truly am learning so it will pay off as I will promise you that our next game will be ZERO QUESTIONS and just quick turns win or lose. But I am not ready for a real game yet.
Catty Kitty
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triplea battle calc isn't entirely accurate. It depends on the situation as it will count non HitPoint "HP" units such as LMs and Air Trprts.
You need to remove those for a more accurate calculation. I'm not saying that was the case here as I didn't look at it.
Yes there is quite a bit of edit compared to most triplea games. That is due to the triplea engine limitations, so it's not for everyone.
TotalWorldWar is a complex, I'd say more complex than HRE, and it plays with much less edit if you wanna check it out.
There a few people who play but hopefully you'll stick around for HRE or as I like to call it "EXP"
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@beelee OK Thanks. FIRST - I LOVE THIS GAME and I AM TRYING MY BEST TO LEARN
That is why I was so proud of myself (yea a deadly sin but still) in learning to use the upper boxes
So please don't ever think this game is not for me - I am going to persevere.
So I think you may have figured out the real issue for me here - I was relaying upon that battle calcalutor for everything.
So how do you assess your battle tests?
Had I known
either
how to build the top factory there (underground or floating on antigravity plates)
and/or
that my battle calculator was so inaccurate,well I already mentioned the easy fixes to that.
And, of course, I don't want to take advantage of any being a beginner which is why I don't want to use those Me109s now...
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@johnnycat The battle calculator is spot on for simple battles but when tank armies etc enter the picture it implodes. Odds were actually well above 80% if not 90% for victory. I am actually decent in arithmetic so I sometimes just pull out pen and paper. Beelee prefers something more high tech so he does a few test battles before doing it for real.
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@johnnycat Since it’s a test game you are welcome to redo it. But I had more planes, more tanks, two Tank Armies against your one also. So it was not the dice. Just a straight up victory where the odds were clearly on my side. I didn’t even do any arithmetic or battle calc because my eyeballs told me I would clearly win. Having said that, Berlin will definitely win if you attack Slovakia in your next turn
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@johnnycat But fine with me if you want to redo. It’s just a game with no money at stake
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heh heh were proud of you going Chief Dan George and persevering too
Also the battle calc will want take units such as Trprts first as kills even though that is incorrect.
Even 1 or 2 units can make a huge difference in odds in a big battle. It's surprising to me but true and that is for the OOB game as well.
Battle calc can get you close and sometimes real close. Other situations as mentioned above and the error factor goes up.
I look at the use of edit as playing FacetoFace. You have to know the rules and move correctly.
Triplea does an easy 80% of that. The Boxes are triplea's implementation of the off board battle sheets that HRE uses.
Once familiar with how they work, it will seem second nature.
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@trout said in EXP G40 Game 3 Trout vs JCat:
It’s just a game with no money at stake
Oh ? You didn't tell him about the ante ?
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By the way, my goal for this game is for BOTH of us to play out a reasonable display of how to do it.
So if you reel you reacted prematurely with the Egypt demo, as impressive as that was (THAT TOTALLY SHOCKED ME MATE) then I am happy to let you redo that as well.
In fact maybe that can be a theme we agree to : something like we each get to take back a turn a few times each game.
My goal if for a fulfilling game and to avoid us feeling hurt after all the the work we put into this only to be snake eyed out of it.
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YES YES YES YES
Comrade Trout wrote : "johnnycat Since it’s a test game you are welcome to redo it. But I had more planes, more tanks, two Tank Armies against your one also. So it was not the dice. Just a straight up victory where the odds were clearly on my side. I didn’t even do any arithmetic or battle calc because my eyeballs told me I would clearly win. Having said that, Berlin will definitely win if you attack Slovakia in your next turn"
THAT WAS EXACTLY THE POINT!
THANK YOU
That is what I need to understand because currently all I had to go on was that photo of the %18.6 odds..
I KNEW there had to be something that I am missing. Do you know what it was? Why that odds battle computer photo is incorrect.?
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I already have much respect for you JT
I sensed (or knew from earlier) that you were highly educated - again I look forward to chatting with you about life and stuff when we both have some time....
You wrote: " The battle calculator is spot on for simple battles but when tank armies etc enter the picture it implodes. Odds were actually well above 80% if not 90% for victory. I am actually decent in arithmetic so I sometimes just pull out pen and paper. Beelee prefers something more high tech so he does a few test battles before doing it for real."
That is exactly the issue. did you see my 18.6% map? Is that what you would see too and you know to ignore that and calculate manually?
I hold a M.S. in Applied Mathematics from the Universe of Illinois so I can add 3 +2 = 4 every time.
But you hit the correct nail ! So how do YOU calculate al this by hand ? Is there some procedure written up that I could follow?
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Gotta love it when Yoda makes a mistake...
BUT I AM STILL ASKING FOR THIS SIMPLE ISSUE:
Were I to have properly seen his actual attack as %86 or whatever and not the pathetic %18.6 my calc showed, WHAT FACTORY COULD I HAVE BUILT THERE?
How about we go back to the Brit turn so that @Trout can reassess that fireworks show?
And I will get to the answer of this factory building in Slovakia....
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@johnnycat My arithmetic solution is stunningly easy enough for a kindergarten student to understand. 4 tanks attacking each with factor of 3. So 4*3=12 right class? Then divide by six = two. So 4 tanks will average two hits. It ain’t more complicated than that
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@johnnycat Only one Tank Army active but the inactive one still had 5 tanks inside it right?
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@johnnycat Enough math class, I am going to bed now.
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You sir are a genius if you can look at this 58 units attacking those 55 units and factor in the extra rolls and such.
I am impressed.
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so I removed the 7 LMs from the Slovak attack and the odds go to 53% SSR
a coin flip but obviously greater than 18%
Edit
also triplea will count the AG Flag as a hit too. I will remove 1 Inf to represent that. It won't be 100% accurate but gets you a little closer.Up to 61% now
Edit 2
If you wanna go more in depth and some people do in the League at the other site, there are some online battle calcs that are discussed over there.It's not for me as triplea gets it close enough for what I do, but as you can see in the above, 1 dude can make a big difference in odds.
I've always just been kind of look at it and go and if not sure check the calc. Which has prevented me from doing some ill advised attacks
Edit 3
you can also click on ctrl-b for the TTy that is being attacked before any movement and then ctrl-a on the TTy it comes from and it will auto add those dudes to the calc.Still might need to tweak it a bit and I've never tried to add from multiple TTys but it's pretty handy as opposed to doing it by hand or playing the turn out
Edit 4
Also for LMs or NMs that don't have a specific unit for which border they are armed on, you should use the Comment Log saying which one they are at so it is easier to look up.I mention it in the game thread as well as putting it in the Log. But the Log is more important. Scrolling back through a game thread isn't as efficient if you don't remember what they are armed against.
It's also why I suggest using the color pattern in Game Notes.
Obviously doesn't matter at the end of the day, but it makes things more informative and hopefully easier to use.
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