FirstStrike and multiple land battle rounds

TorpedoA

@beelee
I am not expert about rule sets, but at v3 you are right.
But i read recently that v2 destroyers allow casualties fire back.

TorpedoA

@beelee
Here it was stated multiple times. https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/2514/idea-change-ll-neutralized-subs-roll-with-main-combat-roll

beelee

@TorpedoA ahh yea, i misunderstood you. I was thinking v3

TorpedoA

@beelee In my mod, calvalry are my scramblers and first strike units. Charge as first strike.
And heavy spearmen or cavalry itself are my destroyers.

beelee

@TorpedoA so i think you can have the targeted units fire back as well. With the combatAA thingy. So even if they get offed they'll shoot back. I do that with planes and ships AA. Once again those are V3 rules.

beelee

so you need to add that to the unit otherwise it won't

TorpedoA

@beelee What? AA with casualties firing back? :astonished_face:
That would be awesome.

beelee

@TorpedoA yea I'll post an example in a few

beelee

@TorpedoA so here's a Tac Bomber targeting Battleship and Cruiser

And here's a Cruiser shooting it's AA at the Dive bomber

There's some other stuff going on here, but they'll both shoot at each other before regular combat even if they get hit

TorpedoA

@beelee But you cannot select casualties for yourself right?

TorpedoA

@beelee https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/2352/how-to-select-a-specific-fighter-as-casualty

I am reading now that rather recent post which you did commented on that aspect.

beelee

@TorpedoA yea if you have more than one unit that can be hit, the defender will choose. You can have different"typeAA" but it'll only go so far before it'll overamps itself. If you want one unit to have two different "types" they have to have the same number of shots at each unit. Can't have one and then stack with the other, which would allow all attacking units to hit as opposed to only one.

TorpedoA

@beelee LL here, so it could be slightly different situation and unit options also.

beelee

@TorpedoA yea so what I ran into was I wanted the Tac to be a sub hunter with as many shots as Tacs even if only one sub but only one shot Per capital ship as a dive bomber regardless of number of Tacs. i couldn't do both so just made it one per.

The DDs can shoot as many as there are against one sub though. But since the sub can also be hit by Tac, Dive Bombers will also attack it giving the defender the choice to take a sub hit instead of ship hit.

Not perfect, but adds a little more to uboat and naval battles.

TorpedoA

@beelee
Does the AA phase then take place before AirBattles too right?

beelee

@TorpedoA yea pretty sure it does anyway. I'd have to check to be sure. I don't have any scenarios like that

TorpedoA

@beelee
Found this:
From user: Trevan in https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/2118/should-the-sneak-attack-of-firststrike-unit-battle-steps-change-during-the-round

In a battle round, there are 4 main firing phases in the code: AA, navalBombardment, firstStrike, regular. Any unit with isAA, attackAA, offensiveAttackAA, etc properties will be able to fire during the AA phase. Units with canBombard property will be able to fire during the navalBombardment phase. Units with isFirstStrike property will be able to fire during the firstStrike phase (originally these were only subs but now any unit can have this property). The rest of the units fire during the regular phase (this does include units that fired during the AA phase if they also have regular attack/defense properties).

Units that were hit in each phase are removed after the phase and can not fire back, unless certain options are enabled or certain situations are present. For the AA phase, I don't see any option that disables that ability. All units hit during the AA phase are removed from battle after the phase. In the navalBombardment phase, hit units can fire back if "Naval Bombard Casualties Return Fire" is true. In the firstStrike phase, it depends on whether a unit with isDestroyer is present.

So, if you have a battle with units with AA abilities, any unit that is hit by them is removed from the battle immediately after the AA phase. These units do not get to fire back. Even if they are isFirstStrike units. And since these units don't get to fire back, my question is: "Should they also still affect the firstStrike phase?"

I think now its like this: (please correct me)
There are 2 main seperate battles

Air battle (no unit support)

normal phase

Normal battle (unit support)

AA phase
bombard phase
first strike phase
normal phase

The only thing i dont know atm is if AA is supporable. Must look into it once more.

beelee

@TorpedoA yea I think the AA battles go first. If they hit, the only way what they kill can shoot back, is if they have AA as well and targets that unit

TorpedoA

@beelee Wonderful. Thank you very much. Crucial information what i was looking for.

@beelee said in FirstStrike and multiple land battle rounds:

If they hit, the only way what they kill can shoot back, is if they have AA as well and targets that unit

beelee

@beelee and yea if they whack a first strike and it has no AA return shot, it's toast along with it's first strike.

So I have a DD with AA against first strike sub. If DD AA hits, Sub is dead and can't fire at all. If DD misses, sub gets first strike and if it hits, DD is dead no return fire. If sub misses, then DD gets normal combat shot.

Next round Sub gets first strike as DD only gets one round of AA attack. But you can set that to as many rounds as you want. So DD could get another AA shot if set to 2 rounds or 3 etc...