What "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" does and oughts to do

Cernel

There is the "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" option for relationshipType attachments.

According to PoS2,

canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand values: "true", "false", or "default". default setting is "default", and "default" means that archeType of war and allied can move into, while neutral can not

My understanding is that, when this is false or is default for a neutral (talking about the relationship, not the Neutral player: Neutral is not neutral: it is at war with everyone), you can enter those territories otherwise you cannot. My understanding is that this has nothing to do with flying over territories beside for the fact that, if you cannot enter a territory at all, you also cannot fly over it.

Am I right, and is this option working as I assume?

I'm going to move into this topic a bunch of posts about it from an other topic.

wc_sumpton

@cernel

"World at War" does not use the 'relationshipTypes' but this is the same issue when setting "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" is false, as the air unit is allowed to stop-and-go on these territories also.

Cheers...

Cernel

@wc_sumpton Interesting. I wonder if this is the root, and the Neutral player just has this option assigned as default so that fixing that would fix the Neutral behaviour too?

I assumed this was a very simple issue, and that is why I suggested it for a new developer.

wc_sumpton

@brazza

The only way I could see handling this is that once an air unit stops a territory marked as "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" false, or Neutral and "Neutral Flyover Allowed" is false that their move be reduced to 0, forcing the owning player to "Undo" the move and replot or continue with combat in the stopped territory. Doing a waypoint (Ctrl+right mouse button) has been blocked in these territories. So, it's just the "Stop-n-Go" action that needs to be addressed.

Cheers...

Cernel

@wc_sumpton Actually, @Brazza didn't answer to this (off) topic but to the one about the centring on start turn. I've moved your post in here and now I'm going to make a dedicated topic about it and move all relevant posts there.

Cernel

@wc_sumpton However, do you know of any game who actually uses that "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" as false for a non-Neutral player? I would like to be able to test it on a map available in depot.

Cernel

@cernel On a second thought, I think this is a completely different matter and unrelated to the no-flyover Neutral.

This is what PoS2 says:

canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand values: "true", "false", or "default". default setting is "default", and "default" means that archeType of war and allied can move into, while neutral can not

According to the description, canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand set to false just means you cannot enter the territory (at all), not that you can enter it but cannot fly over it like it is the case for the no-flyover Neutral.

If you have anything telling otherwise please do, or else I will just not move this in the new topic if it is actually a different matter, so would need to be moved to yet an other topic.

TheDog

@cernel
1941 Global Command Descision uses both true and false for
canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand

Just search the xml for its 4 counts.

Cernel

@thedog Thanks.

I've moved this post into the "What "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" does and oughts to do" topic.

What is your understanding and experience of what this option allows or disallows to do?

TheDog

In 1941 GCD hopefully the xml  notes are enough of a description, if not ask.

.
In 1888a Steam & Steel
canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand is part of the code that allows only aircraft (so no land units can enter) to fly over Mountain-Range TTs, but they cannot land.

Gaia is a special Neutral non-player used just for this purpose. Gaia is the owner of all the special Mountain-Range, Sahara, Tjukaruru for fly overs.

Cernel

@TheDog So there is no case in that game in which "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" is false for a player, and so that player's territories can be attacked by air units but air units cannot fly through them (which is how neutrals in "World At War" work)?

The main question at this topic is whether this option

enables/disables air units from entering territories or
disables them from moving through them.

I understand it being the first case, whereas @wc_sumpton seemed to believe that the option was about the second case.

wc_sumpton

@cernel said in What "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" does and oughts to do:

According to the description, canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand set to false just means you cannot enter the territory (at all), not that you can enter it but cannot fly over it like it is the case for the no-flyover Neutral.

Entering the territory, or not is set but "isImpassable", if the territory is not set to "isImpassable" it may be entered.

"alliance" set the players team; players assigned the same alliance are allied to each other, otherwise that are enemies. Alliances use the properties "Projection of Power", "Honorable Surrender", "Total Victory" and "Economic Victory". Unspecified player Neutral is not allied and defaults as an enemy to all. All territories not assigned an owner either by "originalOwner" or "territoryOwner" are Neutral controled/owned territories
<property> determine how this Neutral player is handled:
"neutralCharge" is how much PUs it will cost to enter a Neutral territory
"Neutrals Are Impassable" if true makes all Unassigned Neutral territories impassable. If this is not set and the territory is not marked "isImpassable" then the territory can be entered, but only during the combat move, as an act of war.
"Neutrals Are Blitzable" if not set, land units must stop when entering this territory regardless of how many movement points they may still posse.
"Neutral Flyover Allowed" if not set, air units may enter but only during the combat move and should not be allowed to continue with their movement.

relationshipTypes are use in conjunction with alliance, they do not change alliances. If Russian is on alliance Allies, then Russian information will be used for alliances properties, even if Russian relationshipType is "War" with other alliance members.
"War" default units may only enter territories during combat movement. Air units can passthrough.
"Neutral" default governed by property settings.
"Allied" default units, including air, can enter and/or passthrough.
With the acceptation of "alliancesCanChainTogether" which can only be used with Allies and "isDefaultWarPosition" which can only be used with War all other setting affect all three equally when set to true of false.
"canMoveLandUnitsOverOwnedLand" if default true, Neutral is governed by ""Neutrals Are Impassable"
"canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" if default true, Neutral is governed by "Neutral Flyover Allowed"
"canLandAirUnitsOnOwnedLand" if default cannot land in War/Neutral territory
"upkeepCost" default is 0
"canTakeOverOwnedTerritory" default is can takeover Neutral/War territories
"canTakeOverOwnedTerritory" default is Neutral/War/Allied territories and not given back
"canMoveIntoDuringCombatMove" default is can enter/passthrough WarAllied territories during combat movement, Neutral is governed by "Neutrals Are Blitzable"
"canMoveThroughCanals" default cannot move through Neutral/War canals
"rocketsCanFlyOver" default is rockets can fly over War/Neutral/Allied

A Neutral alliance and Neutral archType will be governed by both archType settings and <option> where they may conflict <option> take presidents. If "Neutrals Are Impassable" then all archType Neutral are impassable.

Cheers...

Cernel

@wc_sumpton said in What "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" does and oughts to do:

@cernel said in What "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" does and oughts to do:

According to the description, canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand set to false just means you cannot enter the territory (at all), not that you can enter it but cannot fly over it like it is the case for the no-flyover Neutral.

Entering the territory, or not is set but "isImpassable", if the territory is not set to "isImpassable" it may be entered.

When I wrote

just means you cannot enter the territory (at all)

I meant

just means you cannot enter the territory with any air units (at all)

wc_sumpton

@cernel

I'm sorry what I meant was the default setting for archType Neutral "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" is governed by the option "Neutral Flyover Allowed". If "Neutral Flyover Allowed" is false then "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" is default false, if true then default is true.

"canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" can be set independently for each archType. A setting true of false overrides the default, which for archType Nertral is governed by "Neutral Flyover Allowed"

Confusing I know, I'm sorry if I'm not being very clear.

Cheers...

Cernel

@wc_sumpton said in What "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" does and oughts to do:

@cernel

I'm sorry what I meant was the default setting for archType Neutral "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" is governed by the option "Neutral Flyover Allowed". If "Neutral Flyover Allowed" is false then "canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" is default false, if true then default is true.

Wow! Sounds like that means that is supposed actually to be about flying over (and not just entering with air units).

So is the description of this option in PoS2 wrong?

I need to test this.