Dragon War 1.2.5 redrum (Evil) vs Black_Elk (Good)

  • Admin

    @Black_Elk Yeah, GG. After I got both red and blue dragons, it was more or less over. I still feel that they are too easy to capture and too random on spawn locations.

  • Yeah I don't know, I think it would be cool if each side had like 1 dragon to start, maybe randomized between the 3 factions on each team, so you don't know if its going to the dwarves or elves or humans etc, but know you'll have at least one. You could still compete for the remaining neutral dragons, but given how potent they are esp vs fleets, it'd be nice if the red and blue were always paired off against each other on opposing sides.

  • Admin

    @redrum @Black_Elk The TUV of the dragon will surely be lowered, but lowering too much would would just make them more stationary and mindless like before. I don't think the only problem with the dragons is that they are easy to capture, I think there is a good deal of luck involved. But the AI also sucks at using the dragons on offens against the players. I have not seen the AI manage the capturable dragons in a way a human a human would. It seems to be either run away (high tuv) or mindless easy-capture usage of the dragons (low tuv). @redrum Should it just be a matter of adjusting their tuv to a precise point where the AI would also consider using them on offens and thereby actually picking of player single units?

    The sea pirate sea dragon seems to work (think) a bit better than the land counterparts. Is this your impression also?

    Also, could you give a little thought to the actual value of the dragons compared to ordinary build units, because when I see you play, it seems that there is a lot of sacrificing and losing units via low probability wins (losses) vs AI, and a lot of marching towards dragons instead of playing safe, expanding, holding captured land and profit from that. I don't know if I am wrong and underestimating the value of dragons, but I think that there is a limit to how many landgrab opportunities and units a player should risk in the effort to capture a dragon, especially the lower level dragons.

    I am also considering nerfing the dragons a bit more in the effort to let them fit into the game.

  • Admin

    @Frostion I think after the AI fixes I made last time around, you should be able to lower young dragon TUV considerably compared to what its at now. I'd say start with about halving it and see how that plays. It shouldn't need to be too precise just enough value that they don't sacrifice them.

    I think the sea dragon spawning system is definitely better as you have more control over the location and can specify some what fair locations between good and evil as well as have it spawn with some defenders. Leaving dragon placement to the AI will always be kind of questionable and probably too random given their value.

    Well I think Mr @Black_Elk probably was a bit overly dragon crazed this past game 🙂 As when you take poor odds on capturing the dragon then you are not only losing units, you are also usually giving the opponent a better shot at it (this is essentially what happened with the blue dragon).

    Dragons are very strong, mostly because of the high HP as well as range/flexibility. It allows you to often fight battles and lose no units while then killing multiple enemy units. It is also very strong in sea battles since you don't have many starting ships so it quickly swings naval superiority. Its mostly the white/blue/red dragons that are really strong as the other ones don't really have enough HP to matter as much. I'd say the red dragon is probably worth something around 100 TUV so about 10 standard units. Given that since you only generate/build like 1-3 units/turn early rounds that is a pretty big swing.

    As the game sits now, its not as much about land grab as its still about naval superiority as there is a lot of water on the map and the sea zones are pretty large. You need to get enough land to have income to build some ships but dragons tend to be pretty key. Also the capital blockade sea zones are really strong and you could argue almost better to just sit and blockade then take the enemy capital.