Twelve Clans - Official Thread



  • @Cernel Would you suggest changing the dice system to allow for more variance in units? As with a d12 system I don't know how much we can change stats around from how they are now. Do you have any stat change or PU change suggestions instead of removing units from the map?


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    @NetHackFan1006 I would strive to avoid going anywhere above a d12 system, but, of course, the higher the dice sides the easier to find solutions. Also in the moment the d12 is flavour for these kinda games (because of the boardgames), I think you should better stick with it.

    Honestly, it would be very hard even for me to come up with a balanced system that keeps every unit worthwhile for everyone while having a mostly single value boost national advantage system in place for 12 different powers. And I'm not even going to think how to, then, deal with a requirement to work with any AI too.

    As far as the basic units go, if the "national advantages" would not exist (everyone having exactly the same frontier), I could furnish a full set of balanced values, but I don't think either me or you want me to do that. This is your game, after all, not my mod of it.



  • Actually, the typo was a side note. The matter is that it says "Improved Teppo Offense", while it should say "Improved Teppo Defense".

    I'll get that fixed shortly...thanks! Somehow I completely missed that 😵



  • Update 1.3 should be out soon. This update will add clan objectives for bonus PUs, tweaks to the Bushi unit, and some additional graphical/audio modifications 🙂



  • I just played through this, solo, vs. all the other AI set to "Hard".

    Against the AI, it was a bit of a cakewalk as the Oda. I built max Noburi on the first turn, then stormed over and crushed Miyoshi, stormed north and crushed Azai with a mass of Ashigaru that just kept building, and continued East with that growing horde. I gradually developed a secondary horde in the south and used that to storm West through various neutrals, who died with minimal casualties incurred and then mess with the western powers who had been busy beating each other senseless. In the meantime, I built a third horde to conquer neutrals in the center and forestall adventures by the mostly turtling Tokugawa in the south. My vassals also did their own conquering in a number of cases, starting with Miyoshi occupying much of the center and north, and thus forestalling any Eastern adventures by the western powers. I won on the 13th turn when my vassal Uesugi eventually made Tokugawa into a vassal, even though I only held three capitals on my own.

    It seems like Ashigaru become overwhelmingly powerful even if used just as cannon fodder with enough supporting units and leaders.



  • @Thomas-Leavitt Nice 🙂

    I wish I could convince the AI to invest more into the Nobori but I haven't found the sweet spot yet. Some clans are easier the win with than others as a result. I find playing the Azai or Chosokabe to be the most challenging.



  • Two comments so far. Triplea 2.2.20790, Map version 1.3.0. I am playing the 4 team version.

    AI does not currently seem to build nobori at all. In my opinion they should probably be building up to the map max on the first turn, so it might be worth placing those units on the board, and making them have less PUs to start for almost the same effect. Doesn't help if they lose them, but helps the early game.

    They are also taking their daimyos (is that the right name for them) as casualties. I think you want to make a purchase rule for them, and then give them a higher cost than most units.

    edit: Found two more things. Kenin seem to be produced every turn after you capture a capital in this version. I feel like you are supposed to get one per capital you have taken. And i got an error that i made a new post for below.

    Now that I have played it far enough to decide that I am going to win, i like the general dynamic of the map. AI suffers to some of those dynamics, but if i give them some extra resources at the start that should help some of them.



  • I just got this error.

    Oct 07, 2020 1:08:45 PM games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.ui.panels.main.game.selector.GameSelectorModel load
    INFO: Loaded game: Twelve Clans - Triads, in file: autosaveBeforeEndTurn.tsvg
    Oct 07, 2020 1:09:04 PM org.triplea.game.client.HeadedGameRunner lambda$initializeClientSettingAndLogging$0
    SEVERE: Comparison method violates its general contract!
    java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Comparison method violates its general contract!
    	at java.base/java.util.TimSort.mergeHi(TimSort.java:903)
    	at java.base/java.util.TimSort.mergeAt(TimSort.java:520)
    	at java.base/java.util.TimSort.mergeCollapse(TimSort.java:448)
    	at java.base/java.util.TimSort.sort(TimSort.java:245)
    	at java.base/java.util.Arrays.sort(Arrays.java:1515)
    	at java.base/java.util.ArrayList.sort(ArrayList.java:1749)
    	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.util.ProSortMoveOptionsUtils.sortUnitNeededOptionsThenAttack(ProSortMoveOptionsUtils.java:116)
    	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.ProCombatMoveAi.tryToAttackTerritories(ProCombatMoveAi.java:1341)
    	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.ProCombatMoveAi.determineTerritoriesToAttack(ProCombatMoveAi.java:335)
    	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.ProCombatMoveAi.doCombatMove(ProCombatMoveAi.java:95)
    	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.AbstractProAi.move(AbstractProAi.java:139)
    	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.AbstractAi.start(AbstractAi.java:514)
    	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.waitForPlayerToFinishStep(ServerGame.java:537)
    	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.runStep(ServerGame.java:407)
    	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.startGame(ServerGame.java:297)
    	at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInternal(LocalLauncher.java:86)
    	at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.lambda$launch$0(LocalLauncher.java:60)
    	at java.base/java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:834)
    


  • AI not producing is the least of the problem. The AI is able to find connections to provinces that have been removed from the map and crash the game when they attempt to move armies to them. Apparently Yamashiro is still in the game somewhere, and the AI can find it.



  • @Kevin-Wedel can you list the bad territories? Might be able to fix those.



  • Sekigahara produces "Comparison method violates its general contract! java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Comparison method violates its general contract"

    The province bug does not always seem to happen. Also this error only seems to occur with fast AI so far.


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