Suggestions About Victory Conditions
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I think it would be more simplistic and logical way to implement them when conditions are achieved, not when their achievements are preserved until at the end of round.
Also giving players the choice whatever they want to continue or not after the victory condition achieved is kinda redundant since it already means the end of the game, if they don't want to use the rule, they can already turn off it.
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@Schulz i dont see any harm in allowing players to continue after the victory conditions have been met.
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@SilverBullet Its a breach of elegant game design.
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@Schulz maybe, but i dont think it "harms" anyone.
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@SilverBullet The way the engine gives you that option is not only inelegant but also unseemly.
The prompt is something like this:
PunicAlliance achieve economic victory
Do you want to continue?That should make any normal person ask itself why would it want to continue if it already won the game.
The way it is worded makes one think that it would be normal for it to be wanting to continue.
What is even worse is that the default is on the "Yes" button!
If not removing it, that prompt ought to be worded in a way to make it clear that continuing is not what you are supposed to do and, of course, defaulting on the "No" button.
I see this almost as an actual problem. Maybe someone should report it.
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I see this almost exactly the opposite and click "Yes" almost every time! In fact, that dialog is almost always a slight disappointment when it pops up. For example, I've amassed a large army outside my opponent's capital and I want to see my plans come to fruition, but I take a random city in a prior turn that just so happens to trigger economic victory (which I may not have realized was activated). Of course I want to play through one more turn to see the resolution of the big battle!
I think we should keep this for more casual players like me who never really care about the victory conditions. We can definitely reword it a bit to be more "final" like:
"The game is over, but you may keep playing if you would like." with the options of "Exit" (the default) and "Keep Playing" (instead of Yes/No). I'm good with that, but let's not remove this.I also think we should spice it up a bit to make it more satisfying, like displaying the faction flags/icons of all the factions in the alliance that won. Like I said, I've always found it a bit anticlimactic...
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@djabwana yes, it isnt hurting anyone, Cernel if you want to make it "grander" go for it bud, but always leave the choice, especially with dice.
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@djabwana said in Suggestions About Victory Conditions:
I see this almost exactly the opposite and click "Yes" almost every time! In fact, that dialog is almost always a slight disappointment when it pops up. For example, I've amassed a large army outside my opponent's capital and I want to see my plans come to fruition, but I take a random city in a prior turn that just so happens to trigger economic victory (which I may not have realized was activated). Of course I want to play through one more turn to see the resolution of the big battle!
It seems like this is more of a problem with the fact that you should have unselected some unwanted victory conditions before starting the game (and, if you don't, then it is just bad play not to play specifically to maximize your chance to eventually achieve them, which should assure you not to be surprised to win). This would be a matter regarding how to make the "Game Options" better visible, so that people don't have victory conditions running of which they are not even aware.
@djabwana said in Suggestions About Victory Conditions:
I think we should keep this for more casual players like me who never really care about the victory conditions.
This would be kept by the ability of the player of unselecting victory conditions before starting the game (if the "Game Options" give the possibility), but I see your point about casual players not "messing" with such items or easily forgetting about them.
@djabwana said in Suggestions About Victory Conditions:
We can definitely reword it a bit to be more "final" like:
"The game is over, but you may keep playing if you would like." with the options of "Exit" (the default) and "Keep Playing" (instead of Yes/No). I'm good with that, but let's not remove this.I also think we should spice it up a bit to make it more satisfying, like displaying the faction flags/icons of all the factions in the alliance that won. Like I said, I've always found it a bit anticlimactic...
There are different victory notifications depending on how you win (in Classic it was mainly by economic victory, later it has mostly gone by victory cities), which need to be kept, so I'm not sure it is feasible or advisable changing the first line of the notification.
Something like
PunicAlliance achieve economic victory
Do you want to continue?could become
PunicAlliance achieve Economic Victory!
Although the game is over, you may play it on if you want.followed by two buttons like "End Game" and "Keep Playing", "End Game" being the default.
I think, as per current behaviour, the default should not make you exiting the game, because it is normal to be wanting to stare at the (not any longer playable) map for some time after winning or losing.
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@Cernel said in Suggestions About Victory Conditions:
Something like
PunicAlliance achieve economic victory
Do you want to continue?could become
PunicAlliance achieve Economic Victory!
Although the game is over, you may play it on if you want.followed by two buttons like "End Game" and "Keep Playing", "End Game" being the default.
I think, as per current behaviour, the default should not make you exiting the game, because it is normal to be wanting to stare at the (not any longer playable) map for some time after winning or losing.
On a second thought, no need of any explanation: just having something like
PunicAlliance achieve Economic Victory!
followed by the buttons "End Game" and "Play On" should be enough ("End Game" default). The current "Do you want to continue?" can be simply removed.
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I believe all maps should have definitive victory conditions it is one of the most importat aspect of separating games from the sandbox games.
Turning off or ignoring the victory conditions also have its own issues like what if one side rejects to surrender and drag the game until it will lost all territories? Technically nothing could prevent the loser side wasting of its opponent's time by not surrendering.
A clear ending would make much sense and more satisfying. Giving the option "to continue" even after victory conditions met might looks like harmless but my point is it should be enough reason to cut something if they have no reason to be in here.
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@Cernel said in Suggestions About Victory Conditions:
(and, if you don't, then it is just bad play not to play specifically to maximize your chance to eventually achieve them, which should assure you not to be surprised to win).
This is exactly the point you seem to be missing. Sometimes people aren't playing as competitively. Perhaps they want to re-enact something historically, or are enjoying a particular dynamic on a particular front regardless of the objectives or conditions and want to see it play out. It would be harmful to the experience and enjoyment to force a player to stop playing. Game options can't be changed once the game is started and so if I accidentally left a condition activated (because it was default and I was just playing for fun) and then got stopped by the game when they were met without the option to continue, it would be really frustrating.
@Schulz there are times when you want to play a "real" game or map but in a "sandbox" mode (what would happen if...). Perhaps what we're getting at here is an overall "social" vs. "competitive" mode to TripleA overall.
Social would be local dice, allow to continue with victory conditions, edit mode, etc.
Competitive could be required dice server, game forcefully ends on victory, edit mode requires all players to accept before one player can make an edit, etc.
