Map Scenario Categories In Download Windows


  • Global Moderator

    Right before the quality level, in the Download Maps window, I suggest having a series of categories, with the first one and default being "Any Scenario", having just all maps, and the other ones being the following 12:

    Primeval: anytime before 3,000 BC, mainly referring to human prehistory, but also to the feral Ages of Mammals and Reptiles.
    Ancient: as per the era, starting from about the Copper Age, about 3,000 BC, till the fall of the Western Roman Empire, in the V century AC.
    Medieval: as per the era, from the end of the V century to the XV century AC.
    Early Modern: from the "renaissance" to the "belle époque", before the start of WW1.
    World War 1: from the start of WW1 in 1914 to the Washington Conference in 1922.
    World War 2: from the Washington Conference in 1922 till the Atomic Bomb in 1945.
    Late Modern: the Atomic Age till current time.
    Multi-Age: maps spanning multiple of the aforementioned ages, with at least one of them fully comprised (not to use for games in between of two ages only).
    Counterfactual: any of the above if major elements of the scenario are critically unhistorically based (for example, a WW2 based FFA in which the United Kingdom and the United States can battle each other), but not comprising games that allow sensibly realistic what-if scenarios to happen, even if they didn't (for example, Russians and Japanese didn't fight in 1942, but a game allowing that to happen, like all basic TripleA games actually do, would not be counterfactual, because that is something that it is at least arguable it could have happened) (on the other hand, a game obliging something that didn't happen to actually happen would be counterfactual, even if it could have happened, but only as long as it is a major element).
    Futuristic: pseudoscientific or fictional speculations about the future, also with fantasy elements, and also games starting nowadays or anytime during postmodern but with a tech development allowing turning into futuristic.
    Fantastic: purely fantasy maps, set anytime from contemporary backwards, as long as fantasy based (also old fantastic legends, like the Iliad Epic or the Arthurian cycle are fantasy, if primarily aimed at representing the legends themselves).
    Abstract: maps not aiming at representing anything specifically.

    (the descriptions for the scenario are just info for categorising and would not be presented to the user)

    Then, each map would have one of the above categories assigned; my suggestions for the current list being:

    -Primeval
    Jurassic

    -Ancient
    270BC
    270BC Variants
    Ancient Times
    Empire
    First Punic War
    Rome Total War
    Total Ancient War

    -Medieval
    Age Of The Sturlungs
    Feudal Japan
    Feudal Japan Warlords

    -Early Modern
    Civil War
    Diplomacy
    Napoleonic Empires
    Caribbean Trade War
    Domination
    Blue vs Gray
    The Great Northern War

    -World War 1
    Great War
    Battle of Jutland
    Domination 1914 No Mans Land
    1914-COW-Empires
    Domination 1914 Blood And Steel
    Domination 1914-Weltpolitik
    New World Order 1915Lebowski

    -World War 2
    Big World
    New World Order
    The Pact of Steel
    The Rising Sun
    Total World War
    World At War
    World War II... (x9)
    Big World 2
    Pacific Challenge
    Red Sun Over China
    Ultimate World
    Arnhem
    Atari
    Big World Variations
    Classic Variations
    D-Day
    D-Day2
    Eastern Front
    Europe
    Global 1940 Redesign HouseRules
    Global War
    Global War2
    Iron War
    New World Order Lebowski Edition
    NWO Variants
    Pacific
    Pact of Steel Variations
    Ultimate World Variants
    World At War Variants
    World War II Revised Variations
    WW2 Philippines
    WW2v3_11N
    WW2v3_Variants

    -Late Modern
    Camp David
    Cold War Asia1948

    -Multi-Age

    -Counterfactual
    Age of Tribes
    Cold War
    Invasion USA
    World War2010

    -Futuristic
    Star Trek Dilithium War
    Star Wars Galactic War
    Star Wars Tatooine War
    Twilight Imperium
    Stellar Forces
    Ur Quan War Masters Edition

    -Fantastic
    Middle Earth
    Battle of Aventurica
    Dragon War
    Greyhawk
    Greyhawk Wars
    Elemental Forces
    Game of Thrones
    Large Middle Earth
    Steampunk
    War of the Lance
    War of the Relics
    Zombieland

    -Abstract
    Capture the Flag
    MiniMap
    Hex Globe10
    Neuschwabenland
    Tactics Campaign

    The "Multiage" is an empty category, thus it should not figure in Download Maps. The only possible candidate for this would be "Age of Tribes", but it is just too much Counterfactual.

    If this gets made (I think it would be an important addition, and I guess it should be an easy one for a skilled developer), I'm disposable at updating the list with the categories myself.


  • Admin

    @Cernel Not a bad idea though I think that's probably a few too many categories. Also given the number of WW2 maps it would probably be good to separate that into 2-3 categories.


  • Global Moderator

    @redrum said in Map Scenario Categories In Download Windows:

    @Cernel Not a bad idea though I think that's probably a few too many categories.

    It would be possible to merge "Primeval" and "Ancient", and maybe even "Medieval" too, into a sigle scenario, but we would need a good name for it, and I don't have it.
    It would be possible to merge "Futuristic" and "Fantastic" into just "Fantastic", if preferred.
    It would be possible to delete "Multi-Age" and have the rule that the age is the starting one anyways.
    That would put the categories down to 8 or 9 only, but actuall "Multi-Age" would be empty anyways, so that would not figure either ways.

    Also given the number of WW2 maps it would probably be good to separate that into 2-3 categories.

    How?
    Anyhow, I suggest to eventually do this in a second iteration.


  • Global Moderator

    @redrum said in Map Scenario Categories In Download Windows:

    Also given the number of WW2 maps it would probably be good to separate that into 2-3 categories.

    Also, keep in mind that there are the quality categories splitting up; so the lists you would see for "World War 2" would be:

    -World War 2/High Quality
    Big World
    New World Order
    The Pact of Steel
    The Rising Sun
    Total World War
    World At War
    World War II... (x9)

    -World War 2/Good Quality
    Big World 2
    Pacific Challenge
    Red Sun Over China
    Ultimate World

    -World War 2/Experimental
    Arnhem
    Atari
    Big World Variations
    Classic Variations
    D-Day
    D-Day2
    Eastern Front
    Europe
    Global 1940 Redesign HouseRules
    Global War
    Global War2
    Iron War
    New World Order Lebowski Edition
    NWO Variants
    Pacific
    Pact of Steel Variations
    Ultimate World Variants
    World At War Variants
    World War II Revised Variations
    WW2 Philippines
    WW2v3_11N
    WW2v3_Variants

    As a motter of splitting up more, what I've already suggested several times, but was always refused, and it is off topic here, is that the variants should have their own category, and, in this case, it would be:

    -World War 2/High Quality
    Big World
    New World Order
    The Pact of Steel
    The Rising Sun
    Total World War
    World At War
    World War II... (x9)

    -World War 2/Good Quality
    Big World 2
    Pacific Challenge
    Red Sun Over China
    Ultimate World

    -World War 2/Experimental
    Arnhem
    Atari
    D-Day
    D-Day2
    Eastern Front
    Europe
    Global War
    Global War2
    Iron War
    Pacific
    WW2 Philippines

    -World War 2/Variants
    Big World Variations
    Classic Variations
    Global 1940 Redesign HouseRules
    New World Order Lebowski Edition
    NWO Variants
    Pact of Steel Variations
    Ultimate World Variants
    World At War Variants
    World War II Revised Variations
    WW2v3_11N
    WW2v3_Variants

    So, if any developers want to take up this task, let me know and I can update the list (yaml) with what needed, as instructed.


  • Global Moderator

    Of course, quality categories with no maps for the scenario should be absent, not to have to make pointless clicks.

    For example, as per the categories above, if you select "Primeval", then you would have only "Experimental" with only the "Jurassic" map in it. This is to avoid you clicking on High Quality and Good Quality, just to verify that no Primeval maps are in there.
    "Medieval", when selected, would show only two quality categories: "Good Quality" and "Experimental"; not "High Quality".
    Etc..

    Another consideration is that this feature would make interesting the addition of an "Any Quality" category, not sure if before or after all others, so that you can, like, select "Late Modern" and see all the scenario together, if you are maybe searching for a Cold War game, without having to go through different quality categories with very few games listed for each.

    Another possibility would be to delete the "Counterfactual" category, and just have them stay in their setting. Now that I think about it, Cold War games about only wars that never happened are counterfactual, so I'll update the list at the first post accordingly.


  • Global Moderator

    Personally, if somebody makes a "Canadian Civil War" map, I would prefer it listed as "Counterfactual", rather than with the proper "Late Modern" ones. If we list it together we might even convince people that it happened. :-P


  • Global Moderator

    @redrum said in Map Scenario Categories In Download Windows:

    @Cernel Not a bad idea though I think that's probably a few too many categories.

    So, even tho I personally don't like to mix up counterfactual with regular history, one may easily make an argument that the distinction is rather blurred (hard to defend against someone arguing that "Empire" or "World At War" are counterfactual) and, say, if you are searching for Cold War stuff, maybe it is better having all cold war scenarios together, in Late Modern, since they are very few.

    So, this would be a possible alternative in which:

    • Counterfactual are dropped into their own settings.
    • Primeval, Ancient and Medieval are all packed together as "Antique" (which means not-modern).

    This reduces the categories to only 9.

    -Antique
    270BC
    270BC Variants
    Feudal Japan
    Age Of The Sturlungs
    Ancient Times
    Empire
    Feudal Japan Warlords
    First Punic War
    Jurassic
    Rome Total War
    The Great Norther War
    Total Ancient War

    -Early Modern
    Civil War
    Diplomacy
    Napoleonic Empires
    Caribbean Trade War
    Domination
    Blue vs Gray
    The Great Northern War

    -World War 1
    Great War
    Battle of Jutland
    Domination 1914 No Mans Land
    1914-COW-Empires
    Domination 1914 Blood And Steel
    Domination 1914-Weltpolitik
    New World Order 1915Lebowski

    -World War 2
    Big World
    New World Order
    The Pact of Steel
    The Rising Sun
    Total World War
    World At War
    World War II... (x9)
    Big World 2
    Pacific Challenge
    Red Sun Over China
    Ultimate World
    Arnhem
    Atari
    Big World Variations
    Classic Variations
    D-Day
    D-Day2
    Eastern Front
    Europe
    Global 1940 Redesign HouseRules
    Global War
    Global War2
    Iron War
    New World Order Lebowski Edition
    NWO Variants
    Pacific
    Pact of Steel Variations
    Ultimate World Variants
    World At War Variants
    World War II Revised Variations
    WW2 Philippines
    WW2v3_11N
    WW2v3_Variants

    -Late Modern
    Cold War
    Camp David
    Cold War Asia1948
    World War2010

    -Multi-Age
    Age of Tribes

    -Futuristic
    Star Trek Dilithium War
    Star Wars Galactic War
    Star Wars Tatooine War
    Twilight Imperium
    Stellar Forces
    Invasion USA
    Ur Quan War Masters Edition

    -Fantastic
    Middle Earth
    Battle of Aventurica
    Dragon War
    Greyhawk
    Greyhawk Wars
    Elemental Forces
    Game of Thrones
    Large Middle Earth
    Steampunk
    War of the Lance
    War of the Relics
    Zombieland

    -Abstract
    Capture the Flag
    MiniMap
    Hex Globe10
    Neuschwabenland
    Tactics Campaign

    "Invasion USA" is Futuristic or Late Modern counterfactual? Anybody knows?


  • Admin

    @Cernel I am guessing by Fantastic you mean Fantasy?


  • Global Moderator

    @prastle I mean fanciful. But maybe fantastic is too broad, as one may say that futuristic is fantastic too. Maybe "Fantasy" is better, but would the Iliad or a Steampunk or Zombies map in the modern era or even current time be well defined as "Fantasy", or is fantasy only something "antique" (that would require adding another category between fantasy and future)?

    Anyways, if anyone has a better proposal for its name, this is the definition that was there since I made this topic:

    Fantastic: purely fantasy maps, set anytime from contemporary backwards, as long as fantasy based (also old fantastic legends, like the Iliad Epic or the Arthurian cycle are fantasy, if primarily aimed at representing the legends themselves).

    Meaning that is meant to represent anything from Angels&Devils before the creation of man to Zombies today.


  • Admin

    @Cernel fantasy is generally demons, monsters, lord of the rings etc.


  • Admin

    @Cernel also sorry. I never noticed the topic before. I think u are on the right track or have the right idea but perhaps to many categories as red said. Just offering an idea .


  • Global Moderator

    Maybe better merging "Fantastic" and "Futuristic" into a single "Fictional" category?

    It is sometimes hard to distinguish. Think about a setting in the future with gods, demons and magic.

    That would bring down to 8 categories:

    -Antique
    -Early Modern
    -World War 1
    -World War 2
    -Late Modern
    -Multi-Age
    -Fictional
    -Abstract

    Opinions?


  • Global Moderator

    But maybe fictional is too broad a concept? Should then "Cold War" and "World War2010" go in there too or stay in "Late Modern"? How about "Age of Tribes"? Do we want a "Counterfactual" category for these things or not? Is a counterfactual scenario a fictional one by definition or should fictional be 100% so, like D&D?


  • Admin

    @Cernel Seems like we are attempting to dramatically over-complicate this...

    Seems to me you either stay with time periods or specific themes...

    I really don't think we need to distinguish between "Historical" or "Counter-factual" as we have very few games that are truly historical or play out in a totally historical manner.... so really every single map is counterfactual. As I see it the only category that needs to be included outside of a time period is "Fantasy" and possibly "Sci-Fi" (just to separate those as they each target a very different demographic).

    Categorization is supposed to simplify the selection process... not complicate it further. I believe the age old acronym is applicable here... KISS.


  • Global Moderator

    @Hepps So you would list "Steampunk" in WW 1 and "Zombieland" in Late Modern or in Fantasy? Can fantasy be used as a label for not-antique fictions?


  • Admin

    @Cernel Personally I think that it matters about as much as the quandary of "Which came first the chicken or the egg?"

    I think that if a scenario is designed to be in a time period that should be the prioritizing factor... so yes Steam Punk would go in WWI and Zombieland would go in Modern. I don't really understand what "Late Modern" is anyways... the names for periods should make more sense anyways.


  • Admin

    @Cernel ug Fantasy =its a fantasy...

    But generally if your in a library it refers to dragons elves etc or FANTASY! thus zombies and dragons and unicorns are all fantasy. Think ur digging to deep here but up to u


  • Global Moderator

    Since modern wars start in 1492, "Late Modern" would be here the after WW 2 part of it, till current. I'm open to other labels for the same, as well as "Early Modern". Only othen one I can think of is Contemporary, but I don't quite like it much.


  • Global Moderator

    @prastle said in Map Scenario Categories In Download Windows:

    @Cernel ug Fantasy =its a fantasy...

    But generally if your in a library it refers to dragons elves etc or FANTASY! thus zombies and dragons and unicorns are all fantasy. Think ur digging to deep here but up to u

    Ok, so you would put "Zombieland" in fantasy, while @Hepps would put it in Late Modern. I'm unsure, but I don't like the idea to have Zombieland beside the normal modern conflicts, so I was leaning for a category in which to put anything having really strong fictional elemets, even if set in a real and specific timeline.


  • Admin

    @Cernel The reason I say you use time period as the overall governing factor is that it makes it simple. Then you can keep the list based almost entirely on time frames (with the exception of Fantasy & Sci-Fi) and not have to have maps listed in duplicate locations. All maps have a description which details whether it is a "historically" based scenario or whether it is "Fantastical" in nature. So if you keep everything in a specific time period then it is easy.
    I say this because I really don't see a difference in how modern games like: Cold War, where the nations of the world are nuking each other, verses Zombieland where America that if fighting a zombie apocalypse, are any more or less fictional comparitively. Both are wildly fictitious and the only common theme is the time period. A category like Fantasy (to me) is purely for games that have no relation to the real world... ie. Game of Thrones, Middle Earth, War of the Lance... things that are truly unrelated to Earths history... real or alternate.


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