💥 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread
-
@alexei-svitkine said in
1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:Another thing I noticed:
If Britain recaptures territory owned by USSR, it reverts to USSR control. But, Britain is not allowed to enter USSR territory normally - so you get in this awkward situation where your British units are now in USSR territory, but you can't move more units in there, or pass through it after.
Yes it is awkward, been chatting behind the scenes and decided to keep the current version, although not ideal, it does represent Stalin intent of no allied units on USSR soil, but the allies can help out on the periphery of the USSR like at Baku.
I will add some notes to the Prologue panel like;
USSR has special border controls, the allies cannot enter USSR territory, as Stalin refused allied units on USSR soil. However as the allies can retake USSR territory and give it back to the USSR, it is possible to have allied units unable to move or be reinforced if surrounded by USSR territories, so be aware of advancing too far into USSR territory. Best to stay on the edge, like at Baku and not advancing deeper. -
After my last couple games, I think we might consider reducing the Rail movement bonus to only +1 instead of M3. The reason would be to mainly to make the AI more effective. I believe the map works pretty well at the M3 distance on the ground, but the AI doesn't understand how the movement bonus is being granted, so it will launch units via rail at M3, but this happens only accidentally. It's not holding position or attacking/bombing tiles with the M3 rail movement in mind.
M+1 would preserve the M3 distance for Tanks and mobile ground at M2 +1 off the factory tiles (or for other M1 ground units being towed by the tanks). Trained infantry, artillery etc would still have a standard movement bonus from the rail at M2, but this would be a lot less extreme than M3. The player/AI couldn't just launch say conscripts or trained infantry all day at M3 that way, since to go the full distance they'd need armor to tow, or mobile units like Infantry-Motorized to get that far.
Another option might be to handle the rail like this...
Industry Lgt = M1 units +1 bonus to movement (for M2)
Industry Med = M1 units +1 bonus to movement, M2 units +1 bonus to movement (for M3)
Industry Hvy = M1 units + 2 to movement (for M3), M2 units +1 to movement (M3)Basically where the bonus to movement matches the number of stacks on the factory unit graphic in some way, the bonus increasing with heavier industry.
Or perhaps the movement bonus is consistent at m3, but only applies to a certain number of units? Like pegged to the factory size? Perhaps Industry lgt can move 2 units by rail, medium 3, or heavy 4, to match the placement value of the Industry units.
Or maybe we could just make all the Armor units M3 standard? Like with a cost increase so the AI has a way to maintain even if their factories are dropping left and right hehe. Just trying to think of ways to make it so the AI is less reliant on the factories for the M3, while still preserving something of that flavor, since I think it's a fun feature of the gameplay here. Currently terrain reduces the effective range of Armored units, so tanks and HQs can get left behind at M2, while infantry race ahead at M3 across the same spots. The no blitz terrain feature would come into play on combat, but on non-com I mean, you'd still have the M3 dynamic on the ground with Armor. Not sure what would be best, but the basic idea is to make it easier for the AI with a movement bonus that's less pronounced. Basically making it a bit harder for the player to exploit a bonus that the AI isn't really grasping.
Also I think the Rail movement from Factories thing needs to be highlighted as one of the top lines in the initial Launch Notes message.
This screen right here...
I think it needs to say something like "Industry-Lgt, Industry-Med, Industry-Hvy grant a movement bonus to ground units" since that is a defining feature of the gameplay here. Also because the factories can be destroyed, I think that should also be highlighted, since it's pretty novel.
Probably should also say something like "This map uses terrain effects, which can alter the mobility and combat effectiveness of certain unit types" with a quick primer on that, or an example image, so the player understands what's up there. Just cause those things are pretty key to the gameplay. They're mentioned in the notes under the unit descriptions table and in the territory terrain table, but I think they should be toplined.
Bunkers are another big one, just for highlighting an infrastructure unit type that would be less familiar. I think the player would learn the phase order through playing, but it might make sense to lay that out too, highlighting when income is collected and such.
ps. here's an image of the board sans units in case you want for a downloader pic. This is the full scale so, so like 80mb lol. I'll probably print it out at some point once the production values are set, I think it might work for units at like 1:96, extra micro sculpts hehe. Or maybe upscaled to fit on a giant table. But anyway you could rescale it down the tinier size pic that pops up in the menu similar to the mini for a survey view.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yrupjpmzlccuo3w/gameboard 1941.png?dl=0
I have a similar template for G40, before the national color paintjob is added on top. I reshaped a few contours there to match the connections of the OOB game, but the overall projection is pretty much the same. Just to show how they key off one another.
-
Anyone playing this in the lobby at all? Would love to try a multi some day, probably a good way to introduce players.
-
Is it normal that a damaged Base-Camp can't be repaired (or rebuilt)?
-
Not sure on the lobby there, but that'd certainly be fun! Mostly I've just been teasing stuff out vs the AI in Solos while theDog iterates the starting unit set up. I think each nation works pretty well for that, and the challenge is decent with the checkbox unticked for the themed bonus as a player, like if taking over just a single nation, to untick their box in the launch options. For Pacific-Allies and China, I tried a game with them paired up together and it worked pretty well, for a quicker turn that's not quite as involved as say USA's. I think China just needs fighters in their purchase roster to cinch it up there, but it was entertaining for a more focused turn block. Puts them roughly on the scale of Italy for team Axis, when Pacific-Allies and China block up to that way.
Last build I switched over to playing vs FastAI, which seems to do somewhat better on this one. HardAI was being overly cautious with it's TUV, and I think might have been goofing the calc for a couple things which is maybe why it would withdraw instead of going agro hehe. In any case, I had fun under those conditions. I've kind of reconsidered the m3 tanks idea of the last post, or messing with the rail too much, since I started playing it with the FastAI, the computer manages it's warfronts off the rail somewhat more effectively than the HardAI was. I don't see it marooning itself as much for example, and FastAI plays more forward in the TUV trade which seems to help the challenge. For a PvP I'd maybe try it sans battle round limits and with a bid if needed, though I haven't quite gotten that far yet. There are some features in the order of battle and the unit targeting, bunkers etc which can make the battles a bit more variable and unpredictable, unless there is a real clear advantage in hitpoints or a disparity in power, which I think works well in solo for the surprise factor, but could get a bit wild in the multi or 1v1 match up controlling the whole team. I think it would make sense though to help puzzle it out and get it fully dialed like for the SBR and overall balance. I'd be game.
Oh speaking of, I saw that as well with the Base-Camps last game. It happened to me where FastAI Japan bombed out one of my Chinese Base-Camps and then I saw the version of the graphic that I had lit on fire hehe. But I'm not sure if it was working as intended? I kinda thought they might have auto'd, the repair like bunkers or battleships do, though that would sort of defeat the purpose of damaging them with bombers. For Base-Camps I also think it would work well with that unit having a hitpoint, so it can block the blitz and such. Probably for the Industry units as well, since otherwise the opponent can take those over on the walk-in. Sometimes the AI will place them naked with no defense, and it would help to make the starting Base-Camps a bit more valuable. Anyhow, think it could be a glitch there, so might need to have a look on that one.
-
@Ondis
Im not sure but I think the map has to be downloadable from Github to play in the Lobby. It always a fight when I upload to Github to get it to work, hence using Goggle Drive. But its getting close to a Github upload.Is it normal that a damaged Base-Camp can't be repaired (or rebuilt)?
Doh missed that
fixing today, thanks!.
@Black_Elk
Fast AI with picket duty Destroyers
All it took was a few "capital" code SZ
-
Latest version 130 ready for download from 1st page 1st post
Latest version of TripleA 2.6.14458, has much reduced warning errors, get it here;
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/tag/2.6.14458
Thank you @Alexei-SvitkineIf using faster 2.6 remember to minimize the error box to the taskbar, to stop it it reappearing (this is only a warning error please ignore it)
.
MAJOR CHANGES- Armor-Inf & Armor-Hvy (both 2 hit) stacking now 10, was 20 (thanks Black Elk)
- Battleships & Carriers (both 2 hit) stacking now 5, was 10 (thanks Black Elk)
- Repair Base-Camp now works (thanks Alexei-Svitkine)
- Renamed Neutral back to Neutrals as the Allied Closed Borders stopped working
- Added more 'capital' code to guide the AI, total 79
- Serious attempt to balance the map
.
WEST- Britain gets Base-Camp in Fars (start of Persian Corridor)
- Britain gets Base-Camp in Alamein-Alexandria
- Britain gets a small Convoy in the Med
- Britain gets a small Convoy off the Horn of Africa
- Germany fixed Carrier-Fleet icon
.
EAST- Britain gets Base-Camp in N.Burma (start of Burma Road)
- Britain gets Base-Camp in Nagpur
- China gets Base-Camp in Lanzhou
- China can now buy Fighter-Early (if their PU income will let them) (thanks Black Elk)
- Pacific-Allies gets Inf-Trained in Hong Kong-Kwangtung (to slow Japan advance)
.
TODO- Balance
.
Link to 1st post that has the download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread -
Couple things noticed in my last game as Italy, but which apply to all factions. Mostly to do with aircraft, scrambling air battles etc...
So currently defending aircraft scrambled-in aren't showing in the battle screen. Or at least sometimes they would seem to be invisible. Basically you won't see them until they're dead, and shown in the casualties bar, which can make it hard to parse what's happening, like when a retreat might be in order. Since control+B doesn't work once you're in the fight, this can be confusing.
Also because of the way air targeting and flak work, its possible to capture a TT out from under defending aircraft just by using ground, in which case all those aircraft units will die automatically at the end of the phase. This can be very extreme and is mainly an AI issue I suppose, cause as soon as you see it happen you won't be parking air where there's a chance they could get smoked as a player, but still, a bit wonky there.
In general Air remain effective for airblitz (not for taking a TT, like sacrificing air to keep 1 attacking ground unit alive, since targetting doesn't allow the player to pick and choose that way) but nevertheless FastAI will carve up ground units pretty effectively from the air. Again this is owing to the flak implementation I think, since the aircraft are less likely to take these hits, they can remain and fight till all the ground and bunkers are dead even if they won't actually take the TT that way. This is fine by me, and I sorta dig it, but on defense with air the situation is more nail biting.
For defending air, I think there is some question about whether we really need offensive flak for attacking infantry, or if their should maybe be a cap here on flak in terms of the number of battle rounds? Similarly scrambling to intercept in an Air Battle would seem to be bad plan generally, unless you are certain to win. As a result the AI (perhaps wisely) declines most air battles because the attrition and lost TUV there is quite high. Like you really need to know you'll win a dogfight with superior numbers, to make it feel worth it.
We may want to cap dogfights to a single battle round, so it's not a blowout there if the dogfight continues until one side is fully knocked down. I think the main issue is not the flak or air battles per se, but how the air units function in normal combat afterwards, since the hits there are less reliable, rolled at lower values like the 1 or 2, there's a decent chance of infanfry dudding their flak and fighters sticking around for another pass. Basically the air hitpoint functions differently than the ground hitpoint here, in terms of fodder/coverage for other units not of that same unit class.
Some of the complexity here is coming from making these air units behave sorta like submarines do in A&A, which are notorious for adding a lot of rules overhead to combats where they're involved. Main difference being that subs are fairly niche in A&A and can dive and remain in see zones which their team doesn't control, which defensive air can't, since they need that TT control for the landing/parking. An air retreat to an adjacent tile after might work better than auto-destruction on TT capture, and better than a forced stalemate in a contested TT where only air defender remain, not sure if that's doable though?
Another thing I saw is how Bomber-Mediums are used in a combat role, especially since FastAI will bring them into fights where they can't hit anything, but can sometimes still be used at flak fodder. This can feel a bit odd, but I think the FastAI sees there must be some advantage to it. It'll bring a bunch of bombers to attack ships or subs only to have the combat end, resolving before shots are fired.
Of these the biggest right now is the defensive aircraft kill via amphib I think, since that can exploited. For example, Italy can kill like a dozen Allied aircraft on say Malta or Gibraltar, by surviving the initial salvo to destoy the bunkers via amphib or bombardment, then all the oppoments air are nixed. Very powerful to pull one over on the FastAI.
Anyhow, just some stuff to have a look at. Overall it seems much improved using the last build with the pre-release. FastAI handed me 3 losses in a row the other day, which is pretty good! Italy was a lot of fun and much more challenging. Computer had me on my heels trying to hold North Africa and defending Italy itself, rather than like taking over Brazil or going globe trotting. Nice work!
-
Latest version 135 ready for download from 1st page 1st post
Latest version of faster TripleA 2.6.14469 has much reduced warning errors, get it here;
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/tag/2.6.14469
Thank you @Alexei-SvitkineIf using faster 2.6 remember to minimize the error box to the taskbar, to stop it it reappearing (this is only a warning error please ignore it)
.
MAJOR CHANGES- Bomber-Tac can be built from Industry-Med
- More Impassables are back; Tenere, Tibesti, Himalayas, W.Tibet, Lhasa-E.Tibet, Chili (whiter/brighter than Neutrals)
.
EAST- Pacific-Allies get Bomber-Tac (thanks Black-Elk)
- USA Rounds 2-20 purchases/places 2x Destroyers in 010 B SZ in the Pacific (back again, the AI needs help in the Pacific)
.
TODO- Balance
.
Link to 1st post that has the download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread -
Latest version 140 ready for download from 1st page 1st post
Latest version of faster TripleA 2.6.14469 has much reduced warning errors, get it here; (same link as v135)
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/tag/2.6.14469
Thank you @Alexei-SvitkineIf using faster 2.6 remember to minimize the error box to the taskbar, to stop it it reappearing (this is only a warning error please ignore it)
.
MAJOR CHANGES- Air Battle Defenders Can Retreat = false, was true, the AI does not play well on true and will waste lots of TUV (thanks Black Elk)
- New terrain effects banner for Impassable terrain
- Documentation, standardized to 14 point for 2560 x 1440, 2K, Quad HD, QHD plus screen resolutions, was 11, 12 & 14 point
- Outline of the manual added end of Help> Game Notes
.
EAST- Karachi gets Industry-Lgt was Base-Camp (India finally gets its rail network)
- Nagpur lost its Base-Camp
- Calcutta gets Industry-Lgt was Base-Camp (India finally gets its rail network)
.
TODO- Balance
.
Link to 1st post that has the download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread -
@black_elk said in
1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:So currently defending aircraft scrambled-in aren't showing in the battle screen. Or at least sometimes they would seem to be invisible. Basically you won't see them until they're dead, and shown in the casualties bar, which can make it hard to parse what's happening, like when a retreat might be in order. Since control+B doesn't work once you're in the fight, this can be confusing.
Essentially, that is 'Air Battle Defenders Can Retreat' = false. This will force any air units, even scrambled, that are in the attacking territory to participate in the air battle. And it function the same way as a land/sea battle. Attackers fire first, without any pause, and defender choses casualties. If there is only 1 type of unit defending, or attackers hit all defenders, then there is no casualty selection. With the defender returning fire next. And just like land/sea battles, any surviving defenders cannot retreat. And yes, trying to bring up the battle calculator during combat does not work. As the attacker the "battle" should be check prior to ending "combat movement", as the defender... oh well!!
@black_elk said in
1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:Also because of the way air targeting and flak work, its possible to capture a TT out from under defending aircraft just by using ground, in which case all those aircraft units will die automatically at the end of the phase. This can be very extreme and is mainly an AI issue I suppose, cause as soon as you see it happen you won't be parking air where there's a chance they could get smoked as a player, but still, a bit wonky there.
Agree here. I have/was testing with all Flak/Dog Fight AA attacks removed/reduced to 0, also "canNotTarget" removed or changed. I like the feel of attacking with overwhelming air power, to remove defensive air units, and having that air superiority during the insuring land battle. I also set "Air Battle Rounds" to 3. It feels right with "forced" air battles. Plus air units are not stationary. I use the same reasoning for sea battles, navel units are always moving, albeit, much slower the air units, so I set "Sea Battle Rounds" to 5, and leave land battles at 7 (or -1, but I do this very rarely).
Setting/removing Flak/Dog Fight allow AA attacks to be redirected elsewhere. Like Bomber-Tac, with the new 2.6+ updates, its AA attacks can now be directed against armor/navel units, as was done prior.
Defending units cannot retreat during land/sea battles, with the exception of submarines. Air units cannot attack infantry. So if I see a stack of air unit in a territory, unprotected, I'm going to try and get some infantry there, even if I have to transport them, but the railways really help here!! And I have seven rounds of free kills!! I attacked a stack of 7 German fighters with 1 Russian elite, killing 3. During the German AI turn, the air was not move, nor was the territory reinforced. All German air units were lost, and the Russian elite was still there to capture the territory! I don't see air units as submarines, but more like undefended Transport, they can't retreat and they can't defend.
@black_elk said in
1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:Another thing I saw is how Bomber-Mediums are used in a combat role, especially since FastAI will bring them into fights where they can't hit anything, but can sometimes still be used at flak fodder. This can feel a bit odd, but I think the FastAI sees there must be some advantage to it. It'll bring a bunch of bombers to attack ships or subs only to have the combat end, resolving before shots are fired.
Yep, Bombers, and by extension, bomber-mediums cannot target any navel unit. An 'isDistroyer' unit only removes "canNotBeTargetedBy" and should have no effect on "canNotTarget". Breaking down "isSub" was an addition to the base TripleA engine, thus the AI was not updated to consider this when planning its movements. It's so much fun watching the AI waist movements like this!!
I'm not sure if the AI uses "canScramble". Going to have to test this, but "canScramble" units movement is not validated, except for the presents of "isImpassable" territories, so its use with land/sea units is ill-advised. When I play a few rounds for fun, I change many aspects of the combat. I like the forced air battles, so a lot of the Flak "offensiveAttackAA"/"attackAA" are reduiced to 0, and 'Dog Fight' AA attacks are removed. As is almost all "canNotTarget" stuff. Also, I still have the Anti-Air Gun. It does change the game. I wish that "isStrategicBomber" worked with land unit better. I think that would make this map even more interesting.
Some ...clouded.. thoughts.
Cheers...
-
Would players like a manual?
If so what would you like to see in it?
Here is a draft version of what it could look like
1941 Global Command Decision Manual.pdf -
Dear 1941 Global Command Decision Team,
I have downloaded the newest game version, namely v140.
But every time when I start the game, it writes: "Invalid value 15 for class games.strategy.engine.data.properties.NumberProperty java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid value 15 for class games.strategy.engine.data.properties.NumberProperty".
My TripleA version is 2.5.22294, my Java version is 11.0.6.
Could you please give me some advice where the possible mistake could be?
-
@unternehmer
Try and unzip the file, in the usual place? -
@thedog said in
1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:@unternehmer
Try and unzip the file, in the usual place?Dear @thedog,
I beg your pardon for my unnecessary concern. The error appears no longer.
It seems to be some kind of internal file error of the TripleA.exe game launcher. -
Latest version 145 ready for download from 1st page 1st post
Faster TripleA 2.6 has much reduced warning errors, get it here;
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releasesIf using faster 2.6 remember to minimize the error box to the taskbar, to stop it it reappearing (this is only a warning error please ignore it)
.
MAJOR CHANGES- Gone back to graded Battle Rounds, now Land=7 Sea=5 Air=3, was all 7, these can be changed in Game Options
- Help> Game_Notes contains Game Notes sheet, Prologue sheet, 8 Nation sheets & 14 Manual sheets
.
Link to 1941_Global_Command_Decision_Manual v145 (Draft) for those that want a pdf, however it is also contained in game in the Help> Game_Notes
1941_Global_Command_Decision_Manual.pdf.
Link to 1st post that has the download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread -
@thedog So I am reading all this about 1941 GCD and loving it.
But I'm clueless as to how to get this to run. I downloaded the zip file... but then what?
Is this a standalone thing or does/should it run with the triplea software. I have v 2.5.22294
[edit] I installed the new engine v 2.6.14458 - but still no joy in figuring out how to install this 1941 Global Command Decision game. I downloaded the zip file and unpacked it but do not see how to get the triplea engine to "download maps" to this game... I am clearly missing something
Sorry if you guys all know all this and this seems like a stupid question but for years I just use the triplea engine and have never had to instal a game any other way.
Thank you for any advice on how to get this to run.
-
@ezgaming
Thanks for the interest in the map. It takes some effort on my part to make it downloadable within the TripleA engine, but for now, it is this just way.Using Windows Explorer navigate to here;
C:\Users\Your PCs Username\Triplea\downloadedMapsor just copy & paste this
C:\Users\%USERNAME%\triplea\downloadedMaps
into Windows Explorer
This is the path to all TripleA maps games.Open the downloaded zip
In it will be a folder called
1941_global_command_decision
Drag and drop this folder into your downloadedMaps folder. Note the folder to drag and drop is called 1941_global_command_decision not global_command_decision-145
Run TripleA and it should appear along with your other map games
-
@thedog OK THANK YOU !!! I can't wait to try it !
-
@thedog WOW. CALL ME IMPRESSED.
So I moved the unzipped folder to the proper triplea folder (on my Mac this time but I will try PC next) and it worked great.
There was some initial weirdness about planes in Kherson, but other than that it looks like a very well made game!
I already started my first play through vs the AI and so far so good. But it will take some time and numerous play throughs to really get a feel for this (or any) new game.
I remember not wanting to try that alternative universe version of triplea that has the same rules and same participants (Germany, Italy, etc. even the Chinese) but the map was of a different world so to speak. After I tried it earlier this year, however, I grew to really love it because learning a new game is part of the fun. So it seems with this one - but there is SO MUCH to learn lol...
Again, thanks and congrats for making such a great addition !!!
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login