Mega New Elk WIP
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Looks cool
When we get the M+1 factories stuff in place and the Territories at the lower values ala that trick WC did for the production/cash, I think we could rename the previous 41/2 themed iteration 'WIP 42' or something similar (come back to it later). We can have the 40 up as the default for now, since that's what I'll use.
For the tanks at M3 off the factory spots, works for the player currently with that last one (though the production values/cash were the highball there). Right now though in the one I fired up, the computer will still only use it's tank/mech for maneuvers at m2 distance, even if starting from the factory territory. Not sure what controls that one, but maybe we can get them going the full distance somehow with a bit of legwork. Might just be from how the blitz is pegged for tank m2 units normally. Computer doesn't seem much interested in purchasing new factories, so it might make sense to add a minor or two where we want them, or for producing/moving consistently. In any case, I can easily imagine it coming together here. I think using the Fast/HardAI behavior as the guide we try to peg an opener just using a few extra pocket forces here and there to get a nice scale up going for the playpattern.
Cool digs! Great work
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Some observations while watching the computer open for the last couple hours.
Currently Japan won't advance into French Indo China or any of the Dutch starting territories. Not sure there what could be the deal. Curiously, when I switched these same spots to Pro-Allied neutral, then Japan did overrun French Indo China, but they still avoided the Dutch islands - even though though these are relatively productive.
Using different starting units for Japan will give different results but for the most part regardless of starting position to other places, they will almost always just attack Philippines, maybe Singapore and Hong Kong as well, seemed to be the most common. Then they advanced mostly against China/USSR. Trying to locate starting TUV targeting more central Pacific they would typically pull back towards Coastal China or Philippines, sorta just what they would do. The do seem more inclined to make attacks with a few extra tanks though, so I think that could be a decent way to set things up for them. Similar to how infantry function in classic, the computer/player would want to reposition them and make efficient use of the transports to potentially grab some high value starting TUV that way but where it is more out of position from the mainland contest, where it invariably will end up. I mean computer just sorta does what a player might in that respect. It pulls everything back to stack into China more or less, then pushes across the middle if it can.
For the neutrality stuff in other areas, I saw that if a territory was Pro-Side the computers behavior towards it will be somewhat inconsistent. For example Germany will advance into Finland and pick up those unit, but then sorta ignores Bulgaria. If Bulgaria is made Pro-Allies instead of Pro-Axis then computer Germany/Italy would attack and press into unoccupied enemy tiles. Similar Britain would not advance into say Persia when set as Pro-Allies, but if set as Pro-Axis then it would. This seems to be fairly consistent where everyone will try to kill the Pro-Neutrals of the opposing team, but won't reliably bring a neutral of their own team into the mix. Another example was Greece, where Italy would attack if Pro-Allies but Britain would not activate them as Pro-Team. If instead I made Greece Pro-Axis then Italy would say home, and Britain would attempt to invade. So basically sort the exact opposite of what one might expect from the computer behavior, compared to player. All this makes me think that some simplified handling for neutrals may be desirable.
For the basic attack pattern and purchasing behavior, this is somewhat down to the individual nation, but what I was seeing with the lower Cash map, USA will mostly continue to spam transports and fleet while wheeling around across the ocean, usually to the North in the Pacific and then more towards the South in the Atlantic. They would only pick up Mexico or Brazil, if I set those spots to Pro Axis rather than pro Allies again a bit odd, but even without the cash, USA tended to end up in Africa without too much of a delay.
The idea of a pocket force in China seemed to work reasonably well. More of a delay than anything, but least gave the Allies a few more things to think about on that front.
Russia, like all nations, tends to buy many bombers, which can feel a bit odd. I think it is just any time a nation has high cash, and somewhat limited production, they will spam the bombers. This wouldn't be so bad, but then the Computer player will tend to stack them all into a single pile. So instead of 2 groups of 6 bombers in different parts of the map, AI will group them all dozen together. After a few rounds they can be into the 20s with these which is very extreme. I think lower cash will help.
Infantry stacks likewise trend pretty large when they consolidate but the factory m+1 does seem to encourage them to move forward more as opposed to just stacking up. Hopefully more fall to attrition with the movement at +1 from factories.
I have been trying both HardAI and FastAI just to see what sorts of things it would do. Here is one of the savegames I kept using Edit, just to play around and see what the AI does. This is not like a set set up, but just what I was using to experiment. I tried to give token forces is spots which made sense to me, but to keep it somewhat smaller just to see how things scale up from different starts.
Here's a save using the xml from earlier tonight, the low production spread (didn't have the m3 when I started just ballparking). It was pretty trick to watch though!
2025-3-6-Mega-New-Elk-1940_wip.tsvg
Here's a quick image of what I was up to...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LMJROYSMUINHyGlC2JgFFrkNyS7IcKRK/view?usp=sharing
I can tinker a bit more tomorrow
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Ps. Here was an interesting glimpse into the computer running against itself. After 7 rounds the AI's playpattern was like this...
2025-3-6-Mega-New-Elk-1940_wip_round_7.tsvg
At the the regular M1/M2 distance Germany didn't quite have the juice to make it to Moscow, but they still managed reasonably well and even made for some naval fireworks off Jutland last round hehe.
The Africa pocket for Axis held up pretty well too. Allies ended up going after France, rather than pushing up on Italy, though just now finally made a press back into the Med.
Japan and Russia held balance pretty well. It wasn't until Japan completed the conquest of China that they started to flex up that direction. Could be that a few more artillery will do the trick there, or another couple Russian tanks.
You can see computer Japan didn't go after any of the French or Dutch territory, which was a bit sad, but despite that they still put up a pretty good show on their main warfront. I think the Italian's must have somehow rolled radar, not sure there. I'd imagine a no tech game to start just cause who knows what the computer will get up to otherwise lol.
All told though I was pleased with what I was seeing thus far. I think with the M+1 in effect it will work somewhat better, but even here I'm already liking what I'm seeing.
Here's a quick image from the round when China finally got dropped and Allies made their landing in Europe.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rS9RmzHiwUSX38ca8B34Ep-r_o8xikaO/view?usp=sharing
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Sorry for the delay. I do not like "isSub", "isFactory", "isAA". So I redid the factories, factory_upgrade works as an upgrade.
Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton Right on just tried it. Saw the Factory M3 working there too.
One thing I just noticed though, when Germany bombed the French Factory at Marseille, it showed a little colored square (blue/orange) rather than the graphic with the damage.
It would be cool to see the computer buying factories, I wonder which if any things may help for that. Thus far hadn't seen that happen in the other one when they were still moving M1/2, so I just added a few here and there to see what the computer would do with those. I gotta dip out to run some errands but I'll keep tabs and cruise back by in a couple hours. Catch you guys then
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@black_elk said in Mega New Elk WIP:
One thing I just noticed though, when Germany bombed the French Factory at Marseille, it showed a little colored square (blue/orange) rather than the graphic with the damage.
There are only _hit graphics. According to what I have read, these units can be disabled but not destroyed. There are no _disabled for factories, thus the colored square.
Cheers...
P.S '40 1.35.2 Returns AAA capabilities back to structures. aaGun/submarine reworked.
Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton Oh good to know. So basically I just need a duplicated graphic with that other label, like for when the factory is at that level of damage? If so I can just copy whatever image over again.
I recall the damaged factories graphics being by far the most annoying in the g40 folder hehe. Since they each had multiple tech variants (rockets/radar etc) that all needed their own 'hit' versions too. Same deal with the bases, although the tech variants were fewer with those, still quite a few graphics. Probably some not too inconsequential portion of the overall file size in the unit's folder is just Factory and Base images being repeated a dozen times each lol. Probably with only very minor differences in the visualization, say an air roundel or the flag buoy, but with a unique label/distinct image nonetheless. I gather that I'll just need to do a copy paste on that with '_disabled' versions along with the others in the unit subfolder. Shouldn't take too long. I'll try to get that sorted tomorrow
Good looking out!
Any ideas on why the Dutch and French Indo China spots aren't being targeted by Japan? I was wondering if that's maybe cause I edited the control of those TTs over from whatever they assigned as starting in the other scenario. Anzac and Japan I think maybe there. In any case worked on the Europe side where everyone was eager to take over the French land, but for some reason Japan declined the invitation hehe. Anyway I'm sure we can figure it out before all is said and done. So for so good! Excellent job
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@black_elk said in Mega New Elk WIP:
Any ideas on why the Dutch and French Indo China spots aren't being targeted by Japan? I was wondering if that's maybe cause I edited the control of those TTs over from whatever they assigned as starting in the other scenario. Anzac and Japan I think maybe there. In any case worked on the Europe side where everyone was eager to take over the French land, but for some reason Japan declined the invitation hehe. Anyway I'm sure we can figure it out before all is said and done.
Both Dutch and French (French Indo China) are considered neutral to Japanese, so it will take a lot for them to attack. Could try setting them too Unfriendly Neutral to see what happens.
As to the graphics, the structures could be reset to let them be destroyed, like G40.
Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton Sounds good, I was hoping it might be something like that, like a setting that was off. Cause the computer Japanese were definitely going out of their way to avoid attacking those spots haha
Ok so using that last map file and xml I went ahead and added in a couple of what I think would be good locations for the minor factory springboards at M+1.
Basically went around adding the minor factories in each major warfront region, along with a few starting forces repositioned, and a few token forces added in. I think it's giving a pretty good opener thus far, aside from the neutrality stuff on the Pacific side. I think this would be ok for a templet.
I started relatively small so we could continue to add where needed. Goal was to make sure everyone had enough coastal production, and a few forces to try and jumpstart the playpattern round 1 into round 2 or thereabouts. I think it will probably take a bit more to get Germany marching towards Moscow consistently after G1, but we can always keep adding until they do the right sort of stuff. Currently now it depends a bit on whether they take that easy get at Finland, sometimes they will do that, other times they sorta delay. Probably will hum a bit more once the neutrality thing is figured for the optimal levels of aggression there and with more tanks most likely.
Anyhow quick savegame from Edit Mode for a gist
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MNE '40 version 1.35.3
New starting placement
Remove starting grant of PUs because new PUs initialize section was included.Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton said in Mega New Elk WIP:
As to the graphics, the structures could be reset to let them be destroyed, like G40.
Hi guys just getting up to speed. A little sore today , with another half a foot on it's way
At least I get a recovery day heh hehYea in G 40 the Fctrys and Bases just get max damage but not destroyed. So should be able to use the damaged icons for them.
I'll head over to git and see what's happening in New Elk. @Black_Elk maybe we should switch to your preferred final name ?
I just used New Elk as a working name. Although it sounds kinda cool
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Since I'm not making any graphical changes, I'm just uploading the xml's here quick. No since in downloading the whole package just for a new xml. By the way I updated the MNE with the working factory_upgrade. Requires factory_minor and will be destroyed after it creates a factory_major.
Cheers...
