EXP Game 1 Trout vs Johnny Cat

[beelee]

@johnnycat

Sweet I actually did a little research and it looks like a fun climb. Not as technical as I thought Those are for kids

Yea after about 2-3 games people tend to pick it up. I read the rules or parts of every day for 2-3 years when I was modding it for triplea.

I still have to read them lol so does the Captain

Anyway, it's all about fun. It's a bit more involved than some care to deal with. You doing good man

[Trout]

@johnnycat Super jealous of you being in Taiwan. Looks like unlike me, when you have a work trip, you are able to mix in some tourism. I am a mountains guy but unfortunately, at my age my knees can't hack it anymore except for hiking up things like Smoky Mountains with my kiddos. Raw octo must not be too bad since it's a regular appetizer for you. When I was in Japan, I ate some seafood that didn't even have a word for it in English according to my bilingual friend I was visiting. Good times. Love those Hot Baths there followed by green tea and sake - aahh. I digress. Yes, you can redo your turn. Beelee is always a gentleman about that as well. This game is already way more interesting than I thought it would be. I suspected a typical learner's game. What I didn't expect is that you pulled out a JC Russian Tank gambit and intuitively know how to play China well. You are also getting ready to lay down a D-Day smackdown which I have not yet seen somebody else do exactly as you are.

Yes, it's a common play to build a minor factory in Egypt. Really helps anchor your African/Middle East defense and allows UK to help out Russia by trickling units up through Persia/Caucasus route. But make sure you can hold it if you do build it because capturing an Egyptian factory looks mighty tasty to Benito and his Fascist buddies.

[beelee]

@trout

calamari is what we called it in Alaska. Although we did actually cook it. Not for long though

Fisherman buddy would bring one in once in a while

Sake Banzai !

[JohnnyCat]

@trout
WOW. We really need to get on a phone and chat some I’d say. Lots in common from what you’ve been writing.

As far as the game goes: rather than redo how bout we just make those minor corrections.
Maybe help me to clean up. @beelee could maybe help too.

As I recall :

1. I built more than 3 on western USA. So I’d have to move some crap to central I guess.

2. As B pointed out, I stacked an elite in the northern UK I think. So either I’ll take the cash back and put an extra inf in London (which seems like normal) or you could go out on a limb and pretend that elite dude invaded Ireland (assuming there is a land bridge. I don’t recall how this game does that Uk-to-Ireland move )

Not sure I messed up anything else but I dunno.

Thoughts ? Comments ?

PS. You both in Texas now yes? You guys ever meet? I guess I’m curious to chat about more than the game so I’ll just PM ya both.

And what yall think about my idea to make video tutorials for this thing ? This thing being “Axis and Allies G40 - with Captain’s House Rules” <— please tell me the correct name of this game if I got this wrong.

[beelee]

@johnnycat

Yea amazingly there is a land bridge to Ireland in the Global 40 World

Easy now. I'm a yankee albeit a midwest one

Yea crockett gonna do a video on his channel soon. If I'd finish my Game report from the multi he'd probably start on it I only have a year and a half to go. I will try and work on it after my nap

Anyway, the more the merrier I say The Captain had talked about it but as far as I know, nobody has done one yet. Video that is.

Yea I'd just edit a dude to UK and remove the extra Elite in Scotland. I can't remember about the WUSA place. Trout will dial you in.

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee ok. That sounds great to me : that nobody or few have done an educational learn to play video.

I’m not committing to that yet … but it’s very interesting to me.

And yes, if Field Marshall @Trout agrees let’s put one more sucker (inf) in London and bank that cost.

[beelee]

@johnnycat

Yea it'd be a lot of work. I started a while back with some examples at the other site for how triplea does it. A lot of it is out of date now though.

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/36998/global-1940-and-1943-expansion-for-use-with-triplea

Actuall crocket did an interview with the Captain and he talks quite a bit about the mod there

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/40629/video-interviews-of-league-players-by-crockett36?page=1

He's The Captain towards the end of the list

[JohnnyCat]

@trout

I did NOT redo USA nor China. And I recall that I had already fixed that USA West coast deployment in game so double check but I believe that is all kosher.

I did redo UK3 since I know a little more - or think I do, haha.

I armed the 4 mines next to India.

Hey why are you "landing craft" from Germany in Greece? I don't get it. Did you use them for something? How do they work?

And why is this forum called, "Play by forum" when we are playing by Email? What is play by forum? Sounds like play by committee...

104f0b47-e97c-438e-8757-c6cb9b3af6f8-exp-game-1-jc-UK3.txt

Anyway, I bought a bunch of planes but have no clue if fighters are better than tact bombers. I stayed within the 20 IPU India (I think) if not we can place an inf to Egypt or south Africa instead.

104f0b47-e97c-438e-8757-c6cb9b3af6f8-exp-game-1-jc-USA_CHINA_UK_3.tsvg

Mighty Italy is up. I read the rules again and figure you will want to have Germany take over Italy...

So it seems to me that a flaw in this game is Sea Lion. Either Germany gets to do it quick and that makes for like a 3-move checkmate: which may feel unfulfilling but I dunno. I just know that in all other AA games I have played the UK fleet was there solid unlike how you have dominated the North Sea

I doubt the UK player should try to compete directly with fleet buildup - but they do need to get rid of those pesky Nazis.... So I am guessing on flooding the zone with air power to do it.

And yea matey, please tell me about those landing craft - I have never seen those. Do they fly as well as move on land?

[beelee]

@johnnycat

Hi Cat

For the Burma LMs you need to add units from the "Changer" player. Changer is allied to everyone and this allows any undetonated LMs not to cause a battle if the TTy they are in is conquered.

You also need to declare which border the LMs are defending against. Most high use areas have specific LMs that allow one to hover on the LM and it will tell you which Border it is defending.

I assume Yunnan in this case, so you would want to add the "uk_mine_Burma_Yunnan" LM from Changer.

If no specific LM available, pick a generic one and document it in Comment Log or the Game Thread. Or Both is ideal so it's easy to check

Landing Craft "LCVs" are used in certain areas more so than others. Greece is one of those areas. The LCV can move into a SZ and then a Land Territory. It can transport the same units that a Naval Trprt can.

So the German LCVs in Greece can land in Syria, Caucasus, Rostov UKR etc ... so any TTy bordering 99 SZ, 100 SZ and 97 SZ. Submarines do not block their movement but Trprts do. So All Surface Naval Vessels block their movement.

They get a plus one move from a Harbor same as all Ships. If the TTY they land in has LMs defending, they have to cross them successfully. They get hit the dudes they are transporting die too.

More details on page 38 of the rulebook https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jI_1JdIC-1KiTihBICJAbtX3GpVYnNgf/view

You have to use edit "Perform Move or Other Actions" to cross SZs. They will move 1 space on land in NCM. Can be taken as a casualty even if empty. Only on attack. Defense they just die if the TTy they are in is conquered.

Edit
PBEM and PBF are essentially interchangeable. PBF is the popular thread for Forum games, so we post ours there so they are in one place. PBEM and PBF were created 20 years ago when the difference was more pronounced between them.

I linked you some posts from Victory previously that explain it. Search the PBF threads for your first attempt at a game. It will be in there.

Ftrs are bestter for defense and Ftrs paired with Tacs for offense. I personally will usually go heavier with Ftrs but like to have at least a few Tacs to pair up with them.

The German Takeover of Italy cannot happen until Late 1943. It's one of the most powerful moves in the game and is hard to defend against. Basically just try and ride it out as once Italia is out of the game there are some benefits to the Allies as in Italy can't canopen attack for the reich.

Edit 2
Sealion is definitely a possibility same as the Out Of Box game. London must be adequately defended or it will fall. A difference in this mod and OOB, is that the fall of london will end the game whereas in OOB the Allies can fight on.

I usually do my India purchases first and all at once. I also try to max them out to their 20 income, although early game, it might be necessary to put more resources into London to prevent the aforementioned Sealion.

You can look at Trout's current game with me for an example of a successful Sealion.

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee @Trout

Thanks again B

As usual I had no idea such a “changer” tool existed.

I’ll get to it later today. But ya, das Yunnan border.

If Field Marshal von Tasty Fish likes he can do Italy and I’ll fix this when I’m next up. Or I’ll fix it in a few hours after some business stuff I gots to do

[Trout]

@johnnycat Hey JC. You can take your time and fix it. Mrs. Trout has been feeling a bit neglected lately so needing to spend some time with her today and tomorrow. Will be a little while before I can do my next turn. Yes Italian takeover is lethal but it can’t happen before G8 so no worries for now. As far as the King’s Royal Navy, the biggest problem is that G can build U-Boats for only 4$ each and can build the Bismarck for which UK is not allowed to build an equal counterpart. But of course different story once USA joins the fight. However those two Nazi weapons make it nearly impossible

[Trout]

@johnnycat Nearly impossible to keep up unless G lets it catch up by investing a lot in kill Uncle Joe strategy to the east. Well you will get the hang of it eventually but these multiple strategies that you have to think about is why it’s one of the greatest games ever. Got to get back to Mrs. Trout now

[JohnnyCat]

@trout

@trout clearly Mrs von Tasty Fish is a VERY LUCKY woman !

Ok well thanks for confirming those strategic issues. I bet, however, that once past the Sea Lion threat, and a couple other obvious red herrings to be avoided, the Allies will gain the advantage quick enough. Maybe by turn 8-10 ...

In any case, I’m loving this game very much already. And I barely know how to play.

Hopefully we’ll play for many years.

You said, "take my time to fix" so I will double check everything and correct those mines that @beelee mentioned.

QUESTION: I note that Land Mines are NOT considered as counting towards builds in the rules.

On Page 39:
"The production of mines does not count towards the production capacity of the Industrial Complex – meaning that the Industrial Complex can produce other units in accordance with its capacity."

HENCE, if I understand correctly, the build limits for the UK in India of 20 IPU per turn is still correct - the mines built there DO NOT COUNT towards that 20 IPU limit... IS THIS CORRECT INTERPRETATION/UNDERSTANDING ?

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee

I figured out Changer. thanks

[JohnnyCat]

@trout

Attached is the corrected save file for UK Turn 3

104f0b47-e97c-438e-8757-c6cb9b3af6f8-exp-game-1-jc-USA_CHINA_UK_3.tsvg

I used "changer" to change the mines from unarmed junk to now fully armed land mines just waiting for the Japanese to simply walk around them making them useless, lol.

[beelee]

@johnnycat

Yea so the LMs still count towars Indias 20 PU income spending limit. What it means is that in other Capitals with Major Fctrys or AUS with it's Minor, they don't count against the placement "Limit" of 10.

So you can place 10 dudes, Tanks, Inf etc... and 10 LMs

Also, if you add future LMs to Burma/Yunnan border, the LM image will have moved to the left colum of Changer's units window. Idky triplea does it, but when you edit a unit in, it will generally appear to the left of where it was.

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee So what are all these top level things doing? What and where is Army Group Center? This Top LINE still confuses me... Is the Army Group Center tag just covered by that hoard of nasty Nazis?

And why bother with this misdirection anyway? This is a digital game - that one-chit-for-the-army stuff was originally for board games with limited real space. But this is a computer so why do this? I would rather see the units in the territory and not some mix of units and Army Group ID... seems rather confusing that.

In any case is there like 50 Nazi combat units in the Baltic? Hahahaha How did they get there? Is this game just heavily biased in the early turns? I really never looked at the German turn because I spent the past few turns just trying to figure out the basics.

Does that Greece Landing Craft muck up all the Russia reinforcements from the UK in the south? Speaking of which, IS there a way to reinforce Russia from the south? Can the UK send dudes to defend?

I am a bit stumped here now on what Russia is to do. I get all the basic strats... KGF or KJF... sure but that is just theory and I don't even see how the UK can get a fleet in place with all the U-boats, hahahaha.

Again I feel like I need some videos on how to do this. Oh and I checked things like ChatGPT or Google but all that is the board game and this Captain's Special Household Rules is nowhere to be found by me...

@beelee : I recall you mentioning some games that I could look at - but being so overwhelmed by all this I cannot seem to find out where those are. Maybe I could learn what to do by looking through those games?

Anyway I am just trying to get a clue and make this first game decent. Thanks.

Here is the picture of our game at German 4

[beelee]

@johnnycat

Hmm ... AG Center seems a bit cluttered. I'll punch it up and take a look.

Basically the Tokens are to represent what units are in the Armies/Corps/Army Groups. While there is overflow on the map, placements are still limited.

AGs are the ones that are the hardest to keep track of. The Corps and Armies not so much, so yoiu don't have to use the Tokens if you don't want to.

Personally I like them

Edit
Hmm ... not sure where you got that above shot. This is what I get from the above save

Edit 2
As you can see, I don't like to play with the Flags on. Trout and Panzer do. It's just a personal preference.

Also, you might want to try the lighter look by going to View

and turn on "Map Blends"

Edit 3
Here is my current game with Trout
EXP Game 8 Trout F 10.tsvg

and my last game with Panzer
exp-game-9-panzer-g-17-final.tsvg

Older saves you will have to change the map version, so will hold off on that so you don't get information overload.

Both of the above games techically ended sooner than what we did. We just decided to keep on playing for fun.

In the Panzer game, he left JPN vulnerable and I sunk his Fleet and took JPN. I don't remeber exactly what happened. Here is the Game thread https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/4176/exp-game-9-barnee-vs-panzer?page=1

and the current one with Trout https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/4226/exp-game-8-trout-vs-barnee

where he Sealioned me

[Trout]

@beelee Game History

Round: 3

    Purchase Units - Italians
        Italians buy 1 carrier and 1 fighter; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Italians
        Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceItalians: Italians has 1 Europe_Rail placed in Southern Italy
        1 artillery moved from Greece to 97 Sea Zone
        1 artillery moved from Southern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Northern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        2 fighters moved from Southern Italy to 94 Sea Zone
        1 bomber moved from Southern Italy to 94 Sea Zone
        2 artilleries, 1 battleship, 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer, 4 infantry and 3 transports moved from 97 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
        4 infantry moved from 92 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
        2 artilleries moved from 92 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
        1 infantry moved from Algeria to Morocco
              Italians take Morocco from French
        1 mech_infantry moved from Algeria to Libya
        1 armour moved from Algeria to Libya

    Combat - Italians
        Battle in 94 Sea Zone
            Italians attack with 1 bomber and 2 fighters
            French defend with 1 cruiser
            Italians win with 1 bomber and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Italians: 1 fighter
            Casualties for French: 1 cruiser
        Battle in Gibraltar
            Italians attack with 2 artilleries and 4 infantry
            British defend with 1 harbour and 1 infantry; French defend with 1 fighter and 1 infantry
            Italians win, taking Gibraltar from British with 2 artilleries and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
            Casualties for Italians: 2 infantry
            Casualties for British: 1 infantry
            Casualties for French: 1 fighter and 1 infantry
        Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 112 Sea Zone
        Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 109 Sea Zone

    Non Combat Move - Italians
        Trigger Wolfpack at112 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 112 Sea Zone
        Trigger Wolfpack at109 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 109 Sea Zone
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRemoveItalians: has removed 1 Europe_Rail owned by Italians in Southern Italy
        EDIT: 1 Italian_LCV moved from Southern Italy to Greece
        EDIT: 2 italian_paras moved from Southern Italy to Greece
        1 bomber moved from 94 Sea Zone to Southern Italy
        1 fighter moved from 94 Sea Zone to Southern Italy

    Place Units - Italians
        1 carrier placed in 95 Sea Zone
        1 fighter placed in Southern Italy

    Turn Complete - Italians
        Italians collect 16 PUs; end with 17 PUs
        Trigger Italians AdvancedProduction: Italians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 20 PUs
        Objective Italians 1 Control The Mediterranean: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 25 PUs
        Objective Italians 2 Roman Empire: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 30 PUs

d9dfe87c-09d5-43b7-ae8d-76ab779480eb-exp-game-1-jc-i3.tsvg
You're up Mr. Globe Hopper. Mussolini decided to go west and take Gibraltar as France needed to be taught some manners. But I expect some Green dudes on the other side of the Atlantic may take it back in the near future so I won't get too comfortable there.

[JohnnyCat]

@trout @beelee.

OK so update from the Globe Trotter

I finally got to really look at this game... sorry but with fun travel and work stuff I have not really had the time. And I am rather unhappy and wonder if we should start over.

I do, however, return home tomorrow. !!!

The problem with this amazingly wonderful game is that UNLESS EACH PLAYER PLAYS ACCORDING TO A CLEAR SCRIPT TURNS 1-5 it feels pointless to play and call it fun or challenging or rewarding.... This reminds me of the 3-move chess checkmate we would try to bait kids into doing when myself and other chess kids were like 5 years old.

Example: My last UK Burma move loses India. I am sure. I did not realize how these units really move and how many there are. Nor how useless those landmines are.

Nor how planes work.

Nor the value of defense or special units.

Nor that China's plane cannot fly off to India and be useful there after China falls

Nor the subtlety of how to make planes intercept - all other AA games it is usually pointless to intercept with planes. Sorry it is called something else but I mean when the 3 planes in neighboring zones can intercept your attacking force. And things like make sure North UK and South UK each have 3 planes.

And what is the diff between tact bombers and fighters in this regard...

Nor the value of territory type - though maybe there is none in this game? Are there mountains and swamps and different defense values? Most games have this.

And then there is paras... hahahaha. It is SUPER FRUSTRATING is that I cannot get paratroopers to work anywhere and clearly have no idea how they operate

It may surprise you but I am NOT worried about the USSR assuming I understand how to use the RR counters correctly.

giving up Novgorod is likely fine but do I save the money to destroy the factory there? Does that stuff matter?

So were I to move back from the Burma territory then maybe there would be some chance in this game.

THE GOOD NEWS IS:

Instead of a video I feel I NOW KNOW WHAT TO MAKE to help people play this game: AN EARLY GAME STARTING GUIDE!!!!!

I feel a strong need for A sort of TO DO list that applies more or less no matter what. Though some things like "be sure to save 7 rubbles to invade Japan" are more optional...

But having enough cash to purchase those turn 5 conscripts is not really optional at all and players need to know this, not get surprised later. I'm actually surprised that stuff is not just assigned on those turns. What is the point of having to plan to pay for it when anything less is not ideal game play?

I feel that Without following such a set of basic early turn concepts, there is no point in playing against anyone else that understands this game.

For example.
On Russia Turn 5 (not going to call it 1942 as that is just misleading ) USR gets a crap load of inf called conscripts.

But not really.

Or rather, it is a MAYBE.

Unless USR saves like 40 rubbles it is pointless.

Or is it? The rules are clear in some things yet not others so I have to ask. And if those 20 conscripts are not bought - or is it 29? Then what?

Heavy Sigh

But in order to do that... they better not buy any shiny special units too early. So no buying generals or whatever all that special unit stuff it called.

The USSR should only be purchasing defense stuff - I know this. But I don't know HOW to do this. In regular AA I would just purchase inf. OF course. no armor for many turns. And keep their meager air alive always

But in this game I have no idea - despite knowing the concept well.

Similar with UK. I've been pretty much trying to keep UK to just absolute necessary stuff but wasted money on an Egypt factory too early. I had no idea that south african factory could take its place instead.

And the naval units continue to confuse me - with 9 fighters I guess I could plop down some UK naval units because the idea is to attrit Germany and not win right?

How do the allies do more than void operation sea lion?

And I thought paras could jump over to France to muck things up but that does not work. What am I doing wrong with them?

And what is all this special unit stuff really for? Marines? Elites? Commandos? Russian commissars in town... wow... confusing. and some need to be paired with artillery ... Some with transgender martian mules... too confusing early on when clearly all the allies need is to stack up defense until they can take the lead.

Anyway, I am just disturbed by every turn figuring out that "were I to have done something else the turn before I would be ready for this turn's special unit offers..."

So I suggest we either start over and even go further to agree to likely running a few games of just starting turns 1 - 5 in order to figure this stuff out.

At very least please let me redo at last the past UK turn since losing India turn 6 makes for no real challenge. And before and during that I will put together a guide that makes clear what to expect in terms of turns 1 through 5 for the various allies major powers and then do the same for the axis when I play the bad guys.

All this buying special units is crap - or if not, then I need to lay out the conditions and reasons for it.

This game is truly amazing Gents... but rather silly to play when the basics are not understood. Sorry but I am not smart enough to just jump in and play it with standard axis and allies experience. I am used to playing games like Third Reich or massive simulations of the entire eastern front...

But this game is all RULES HEAVY early on and not really something to actually play and have fun with unless all that early stuff is known and mastered before even starting.

Sorry - I don't mean to bitch .... but I am bitching...