EXP G40 Game 3 Trout vs JCat
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@johnnycat Game History
Round: 9 Purchase Units - Russians Russians buy 3 Mass_Tankss, 1 TankDestroyerFS, 3 TotalWar_Tank_2s, 2 artilleries, 1 elite and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 16 PUs; 0 AirLendLease; 3 TankLendLease; Politics - Russians Russians spend 2 PUs on Political Action: Political Action Russians To War With JapaneseTurn9 Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With JapaneseTurn9: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Russians from Neutrality to War Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With JapaneseTurn9: Changing Relationship for Russians and Chinese from Neutrality to Allied Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With JapaneseTurn9: Changing Relationship for Russians and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly Combat Move - Russians Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRussians: Russians has 1 R_Europe_Rail and 2 Russian_Rails placed in Russia Trigger ItalyUser: Changer has 1 ItalyUser placed in Southern Italy Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Russians takes Bulgaria from Germans EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Note to players Japanese: The Godless Communists Attack Japan! After Russian Combat Move Japan May Immediately Place the Amount of PUs it Cost Russia to Declare War in Units in any Non Combat Japanese Controlled Terr.... 1 infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Tsinghai Chinese take Tsinghai from Japanese 4 infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Kansu EDIT: 1 3rdCorps moved from Novosibirsk to 3rd Corps EDIT: 2 armour moved from 3rd Corps to Kansu EDIT: 1 guard_infantry moved from 3rd Corps to Kansu EDIT: 1 Soviet_Commisar_3 moved from Overflow to Kansu EDIT: 1 russian_para moved from Caucasus to Bulgaria 2 Army_Conscripts moved from Baltic States to Poland 1 Army_Conscript moved from Eastern Poland to Romania 1 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Romania EDIT: 1 2ndTankArmy moved from Eastern Poland to 2nd Tank EDIT: 1 Tank_General moved from 2nd Tank to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: Russians undo move 12. EDIT: 1 1stPanzerArmy moved from Slovakia Hungary to 1st Panzer EDIT: 5 armour moved from 1st Panzer to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 Panzer_General3 moved from GermanFlow to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: Russians undo move 10. EDIT: 1 1stWaffenArmy moved from Slovakia Hungary to 1st Waffen EDIT: 3 waffen_infantrys moved from 1st Waffen to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 Waffen_Oberst moved from 1st Waffen to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 ArmyGroupActive moved from Army Group Centre to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 ArmyGroupActive moved from Belarus to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 5 armour moved from 2nd Tank to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 Tank_General moved from 2nd Tank to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 5 armour moved from 1st Tank to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 Tank_General3 moved from Overflow to Slovakia Hungary EDIT: 1 1stTankArmy moved from Eastern Poland to 1st Tank 1 infantry moved from Karelia to Finland Russians take Finland from Germans 1 TankDestroyerFS moved from Belarus to Slovakia Hungary 1 Elitearmour moved from Belarus to Slovakia Hungary 4 armour moved from Belarus to Slovakia Hungary 1 elite moved from Eastern Poland to Romania 2 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Slovakia Hungary 1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Romania 1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Romania 3 guard_infantrys moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 2 artilleries and 24 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 2 artilleries moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 16 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 6 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 2 artilleries and 23 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 1 infantry moved from Amur to Korea Russians take Korea from Japanese Combat - Russians Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Changing PUs for Japanese from 67 to 69 EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Battle in Poland Russians attack with 2 Army_Conscripts, 1 armour and 1 tactical_bomber Germans defend with 1 infantry Russians win, taking Poland from Germans with 2 Army_Conscripts, 1 armour and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Battle in Romania Russians attack with 1 Army_Conscript, 1 elite, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber Germans defend with 1 infantry Russians win, taking Romania from Germans with 1 Army_Conscript, 1 elite, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Battle in Slovakia Hungary Changer loiter and taunt; Russians attack with 1 ArmyGroupActive, 1 Elitearmour, 1 FighterAce, 1 TankDestroyerFS, 1 Tank_General, 1 Tank_General3, 16 armour, 2 artilleries, 2 fighters, 3 guard_infantrys, 23 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers Germans defend with 1 ArmyGroupActive, 1 PanzerJagerFS, 1 Panzer_General3, 2 Panzer_Grndrss, 1 Waffen_Oberst, 1 aaGun, 9 armour, 2 elites, 3 fighters, 1 german_para, 23 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 3 waffen_infantrys; Changer defend Russians win, taking Slovakia Hungary from Germans with 1 Elitearmour, 1 FighterAce, 1 TankDestroyerFS, 1 Tank_General, 1 Tank_General3, 6 armour, 2 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 61 Casualties for Russians: 1 ArmyGroupActive, 10 armour, 2 artilleries, 3 guard_infantrys and 23 infantry Casualties for Germans: 1 ArmyGroupActive, 1 PanzerJagerFS, 1 Panzer_General3, 2 Panzer_Grndrss, 1 Waffen_Oberst, 1 aaGun, 9 armour, 2 elites, 3 fighters, 1 german_para, 23 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 3 waffen_infantrys Battle in Kansu Russians attack with 1 Soviet_Commisar_3, 2 armour, 1 guard_infantry and 4 infantry Japanese defend with 2 infantry Russians win, taking Kansu from Japanese with 1 Soviet_Commisar_3, 2 armour, 1 guard_infantry and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry Casualties for Japanese: 2 infantry Trigger Russians Conquer Japanese Territory By Mongolia: Setting switch to false for conditionAttachment_Mongolia_May_Change_To_Russians_Control_Switch attached to Russians Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 95 Sea Zone Non Combat Move - Russians Trigger Wolfpack at95 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 95 Sea Zone Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRemoveRussians: has removed 2 Russian_Rails owned by Russians in Eastern Poland Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRemoveRussians: has removed 1 R_Europe_Rail owned by Russians in Buryatia 1 infantry moved from Buryatia to Amur 1 armour moved from Yenisey to Buryatia 1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Novgorod 1 fighter moved from Romania to Belarus 1 tactical_bomber moved from Romania to Belarus 2 fighters moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland 2 tactical_bombers moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland 1 2ndCorps moved from Baltic States to Karelia 1 tactical_bomber moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland 1 FighterAce moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland 4 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland 1 artillery moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland 1 elite moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland 1 elite moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine 3 armour moved from Russia to Rostov 3 armour moved from Russia to Western Ukraine 1 Russian_Rail and 1 artillery moved from Russia to Eastern Poland 1 Russian_Rail moved from Russia to Urals 1 Russian_Rail and 1 armour moved from Urals to Eastern Poland 1 russian_para moved from Russia to Caucasus 2 russian_paras moved from Russia to Eastern Poland 1 R_Europe_Rail and 1 elite moved from Russia to Buryatia EDIT: 1 guard_infantry moved from Kansu to 3rd Corps EDIT: 2 armour moved from Kansu to 3rd Corps EDIT: 1 3rdCorps moved from 3rd Corps to Kansu EDIT: 1 Soviet_Commisar_3 moved from Kansu to Overflow 1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Baltic States 1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Karelia Place Units - Russians 3 Mass_Tankss, 3 TotalWar_Tank_2s and 1 elite placed in Russia 1 TankDestroyerFS placed in Belarus 1 artillery and 1 infantry placed in Belarus 1 artillery and 1 infantry placed in Russia Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Slovakia Hungary: 1 Tank_General EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Trigger MassTanksPlace3: has removed 3 Mass_Tankss owned by Russians in Russia Trigger RussiansTotalWarTankPlaceRussia6: has removed 3 TotalWar_Tank_2s owned by Russians in Russia Trigger MassTanksPlace3: Russians has 3 armour placed in Russia Trigger RussiansTotalWarTankPlaceRussia6: Russians has 3 armour placed in Russia Turn Complete - Russians Trigger RussiansParaBoost atBulgaria: Russians has 1 russian_paraBoost placed in Bulgaria Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 3 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 6 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,5,5,6,1,1,3,5,3,2,1,6,4,3,2,5,2,3,3,1,4,5,4,3,1,2,5,6,1,4,4,3,6 Russians collect 48 PUs (3 lost to blockades); end with 62 PUs Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 67 PUs Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 15 PUs; end with 82 PUs96c9efab-e2f0-4fa3-ae2b-9c275cc26f2f-trout-cat-game-3-r9.tsvg Forgot to remove one LM. I did remove the Commie it blew up. By the way, you accidentally purchased carrier-based G planes and put them in your territories. They can only operate on carriers. But let's just let it go and do it correct the next game. I am okay with that.
Lastly, I declared war on Japan and boosted your bank account by 2 rubles in doing so. Speaking of Japan, their turn now!
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Hey mate that was so far off what I expected, that I need to spend some time analyzing this
I will want to clean up some key issues as well. Like I read about the Me109 and nowhere does it say those planes cannot be used - those were critical to my plan actually but if I was wrong I sure want to know.
Here is what I read: "Germany can produce Aircraft Carrier Based
Fighter Plane units.
They can be produced at any factory site that the
German player controls from the start of that turn.
They operate as any other Aircraft Carrier Based
Fighter and can be used in any Theatre of
Operations that the German player wishes."So is there some deeper meaning by "they operate as any other ..."?
I've lots more but first I will ensure that I understood the number of units. Because yesterday I felt like I finally got it - but I look at the board now and some things still make so sense. For example: Where did my 1st panzer go? How is his general still in the upper box?
Where is the Berlin Army group that was supposed to easily counter attack if you took it with the predicted 3 units...
Why are you still showing a panzer group in the upper boxes?
Again, thank you and remember this is a TRAINING LEARNING game - we are not trying to outsmart each other here - and this is the first game that I finally got to these boxes !!!
So I request to look over this more closely and if I find some big issues maybe just redo this one too.
Again I stress this is serious learning for me so I don't skimp, but it NOT a competition type game and if it was you won it Turn 2 or 3 for sure.
But first I ask for clarification on those ME109s and the current disposition of units on the map since it seems missing things..
Have a great Hump Day
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@johnnycat said in EXP G40 Game 3 Trout vs JCat:
So is there some deeper meaning by "they operate as any other ..."?
Hi Cat
Yea so the yanks and JPN both have Naval Ftrs page 31 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jI_1JdIC-1KiTihBICJAbtX3GpVYnNgf/view
it's a little involved but basically Naval Ftrs can only operate from CVs. The only time they can be on land is if they can't land on a damaged CV and then they can't do anything, cargo for game purposes, until a undamaged CV is available for them to land on.
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@beelee ok. that's needed to know. but what about when they get placed? which is the issue here really. the rules state they can be produced in factory !
so for 1 turn for sure they not on the carriers
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@beelee Dear Yoda B
@trout said:Again I just need to clear up some stuff so thank you in advance for helping: QUESTION ABOUT FULL FACTORY BUILDING OPTIONS
Trout said: "@johnnycat It's in the rules but you cannot put it underground and upgrade it in the same turn. Both actions are done in 1st phase placement"
Bee said: "yea you can purchase and upgrade same turn. Have to do a little creative editing. If you make a Fctry Hvy and then go underground it loses the Hvy Upgrade."
What I am trying to understand is what options I had for making a strong factory in Slovakia this specific game and Germany turn 9 which we are discussing?
Variables are factory starting game there
size
above or undergoundand loosing bonuses I guess when putting underground.
This is why I ended up with the Northern Italy factory builds but If I could have built a large factory and used it in Slovakia or even the other places that might have been better.
I was also tempted to build factories in Persia !!! I bet that would be fun. But again I was not sure. If I could have build a factory and an upgrade so that I built 4 units that turn, again, that would be essential to know.
THANK YOU
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no they place directly on the CVs. You need the CVs in order to place them. Idk if triplea still allows to place in the Fctry or not. I think I fixed it. For JPN and USA only though.
Idk if I did for the reich and UK though
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@beelee OK I take your word as Gospell
But the rules Page 55 say the following:
"They can be produced at any factory site that the
German player controls from the start of that turn."But ok. I will move on - those fighters should never have been bought and placed. THANK YOU for that.
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I don't want us to get lost in too many things but I also need to learn these factory building rules because I spent hours and still appear to have gotten it wrong
You guys are telling me the opposite yes? Or am I misreading ?
Trout said: "@johnnycat It's in the rules but you cannot put it underground and upgrade it in the same turn. Both actions are done in 1st phase placement"
Bee said: "yea you can purchase and upgrade same turn. Have to do a little creative editing. If you make a Fctry Hvy and then go underground it loses the Hvy Upgrade."
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hmm ... I will check the upgrades. Maybe you can't buy and go Undrg same turn. I thought you could.
The key for the UK and G Naval Ftrs is the "they operate the same ..." or whatever it says. Yea there's a few spots where things aren't quite as clear as one would like. Some of these were addressed in the revised rulebook and the Rules Clarification https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/assets/uploads/files/1634040084883-rules-clarification-axis-amp-allies-global-1940-house-rules-expansion-1.pdf
Edit
Something to keep in mind is that the guys who wrote the rulebook, english is not their native language. -
@beelee again mates - I am only trying to learn and I have to go by THREE sets of rules and talking to you guys !!!!
Anyway could you please look at the game @trout posted.
I need to understand where everything is because it appears that markers are missing and units and not supposed to be where they are but I dunno?
Like why is one of my panzer generals (My first) up in the boxes? Is he hiding. is he retreated Is he a ghost?
Same with soviets stuff. There is a 1st panzer group there but well I am not sure.
THANKS
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@beelee ok I did not know that about English
Again I go back to wanting to help - but boy this would be a big job...
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@beelee Oh Yea the company options for Slovakia. If you could tell me the options for the start of German 9 for that territory - because I thought I could not even build there -but then I could... but then...
You get it.Please just show me the turns for ideally defending any territory where you can build a company.
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yea so looks like I had it wrong
So you can't buy a Fctry and move it underground same turn. Hmm Idky I thought that.
I think what it is that you can move an existing Fctry underground and upgrade to Hvy Ind same turn but now I'm not 100% certain on that.
I'm pretty sure you can. I've asked the Captain about this before.
At any rate, you can't buy a Fctry and move it underground same turn. I will check the Game Notes to see if I have that right.
I can check your game after bit but busy now. Trout knows what's going on with it more than I do
Edit
Looks like Game Notes are OK
Edit 2
OK I asked for clarification on going underground and updating to Hvy Ind same turn. I thought you could. -
@beelee You can build minor or major factory in Slovakia since it’s a 3 territory that began the game as G. But can never build a factory and place units there in the same turn. Does that help?
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@johnnycat ME-109’s can be built in any territory unlike a lot of the other special units but they must be placed directly on a carrier. But I already said I can let that go as a learning mistake. So you can just use them as normal fighters the rest of this game
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@trout thanks but not necessary. I’m just trying to learn this stuff. It’s not about the game for me. That’s just a way to stay motivated to play more turns. though I thank you for all that flexibility.
Currently, for me I need to learn what is real, what the tripleA does right and wrong, what all these player enforced issues are.
So before i can even get to understanding this turns battles I need to know what’s doable and not.
So at the moment I’m trying to understand this factory production issue.
But if I you could answer my other questions about how to make sense of the current markers I’d greatly appreciate it.
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@johnnycat Regarding what I have in Slovakia now. I was trying to help you because I have one Tank General there but I didn’t put them back in the box up top because I am assuming you will kill them attacking from Berlin. The armies are kind of a pain to set up for the combat rolls. Anywho, my guys are set up in Slovakia to where you can attack and the dice rolls will calculate accurately
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@johnnycat If you do attack with a Panzer General you may need Beelee to walk you through how to do it as it is not intuitively obvious. But at least you don’t have to set up my units as they are already set up to defend properly
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@trout thanks. But I can’t get to any of this until
I learn the factory build rules clearly. That’s still a big hole in my knowledge and this game is all About understanding it all and I need to get a consistent answer so I know what’s really doable.And I’m not opposed
To playing this out, and already preached it three turns out so it might be fun, but I still Need to Understand these basics.When I had problems in turn 4 I just wasn’t mapping all the units correctly. This time I counted and found you at 12 less units …. But somehow you they took that territory.
But like I said I need to figure out factories before I can look at the details of that battle.
But one question is how do I have a panzer general in the upper boxes but nobody else? Where did his 5 tanks go to ?
But dont answer that yet. I’ll see if I can figure it out first.
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