EXP G40 Game 3 Trout vs JCat

[JohnnyCat]

@trout @beelee.

Hey mate that was so far off what I expected, that I need to spend some time analyzing this

I will want to clean up some key issues as well. Like I read about the Me109 and nowhere does it say those planes cannot be used - those were critical to my plan actually but if I was wrong I sure want to know.

Here is what I read: "Germany can produce Aircraft Carrier Based
Fighter Plane units.
They can be produced at any factory site that the
German player controls from the start of that turn.
They operate as any other Aircraft Carrier Based
Fighter and can be used in any Theatre of
Operations that the German player wishes."

So is there some deeper meaning by "they operate as any other ..."?

I've lots more but first I will ensure that I understood the number of units. Because yesterday I felt like I finally got it - but I look at the board now and some things still make so sense. For example: Where did my 1st panzer go? How is his general still in the upper box?

Where is the Berlin Army group that was supposed to easily counter attack if you took it with the predicted 3 units...

Why are you still showing a panzer group in the upper boxes?

Again, thank you and remember this is a TRAINING LEARNING game - we are not trying to outsmart each other here - and this is the first game that I finally got to these boxes !!!

So I request to look over this more closely and if I find some big issues maybe just redo this one too.

Again I stress this is serious learning for me so I don't skimp, but it NOT a competition type game and if it was you won it Turn 2 or 3 for sure.

But first I ask for clarification on those ME109s and the current disposition of units on the map since it seems missing things..

Have a great Hump Day

[beelee]

@johnnycat said in EXP G40 Game 3 Trout vs JCat:

So is there some deeper meaning by "they operate as any other ..."?

Hi Cat

Yea so the yanks and JPN both have Naval Ftrs page 31 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jI_1JdIC-1KiTihBICJAbtX3GpVYnNgf/view

it's a little involved but basically Naval Ftrs can only operate from CVs. The only time they can be on land is if they can't land on a damaged CV and then they can't do anything, cargo for game purposes, until a undamaged CV is available for them to land on.

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee ok. that's needed to know. but what about when they get placed? which is the issue here really. the rules state they can be produced in factory !

so for 1 turn for sure they not on the carriers

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee Dear Yoda B
@trout said:

Again I just need to clear up some stuff so thank you in advance for helping: QUESTION ABOUT FULL FACTORY BUILDING OPTIONS

Trout said: "@johnnycat It's in the rules but you cannot put it underground and upgrade it in the same turn. Both actions are done in 1st phase placement"

Bee said: "yea you can purchase and upgrade same turn. Have to do a little creative editing. If you make a Fctry Hvy and then go underground it loses the Hvy Upgrade."

What I am trying to understand is what options I had for making a strong factory in Slovakia this specific game and Germany turn 9 which we are discussing?

Variables are factory starting game there
size
above or undergound

and loosing bonuses I guess when putting underground.

This is why I ended up with the Northern Italy factory builds but If I could have built a large factory and used it in Slovakia or even the other places that might have been better.

I was also tempted to build factories in Persia !!! I bet that would be fun. But again I was not sure. If I could have build a factory and an upgrade so that I built 4 units that turn, again, that would be essential to know.

THANK YOU

[beelee]

@johnnycat

no they place directly on the CVs. You need the CVs in order to place them. Idk if triplea still allows to place in the Fctry or not. I think I fixed it. For JPN and USA only though.

Idk if I did for the reich and UK though

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee OK I take your word as Gospell

But the rules Page 55 say the following:

"They can be produced at any factory site that the
German player controls from the start of that turn."

But ok. I will move on - those fighters should never have been bought and placed. THANK YOU for that.

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee

I don't want us to get lost in too many things but I also need to learn these factory building rules because I spent hours and still appear to have gotten it wrong

You guys are telling me the opposite yes? Or am I misreading ?

Trout said: "@johnnycat It's in the rules but you cannot put it underground and upgrade it in the same turn. Both actions are done in 1st phase placement"

Bee said: "yea you can purchase and upgrade same turn. Have to do a little creative editing. If you make a Fctry Hvy and then go underground it loses the Hvy Upgrade."

[beelee]

@johnnycat

hmm ... I will check the upgrades. Maybe you can't buy and go Undrg same turn. I thought you could.

The key for the UK and G Naval Ftrs is the "they operate the same ..." or whatever it says. Yea there's a few spots where things aren't quite as clear as one would like. Some of these were addressed in the revised rulebook and the Rules Clarification https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/assets/uploads/files/1634040084883-rules-clarification-axis-amp-allies-global-1940-house-rules-expansion-1.pdf

Edit
Something to keep in mind is that the guys who wrote the rulebook, english is not their native language.

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee again mates - I am only trying to learn and I have to go by THREE sets of rules and talking to you guys !!!!

Anyway could you please look at the game @trout posted.

I need to understand where everything is because it appears that markers are missing and units and not supposed to be where they are but I dunno?

Like why is one of my panzer generals (My first) up in the boxes? Is he hiding. is he retreated Is he a ghost?

Same with soviets stuff. There is a 1st panzer group there but well I am not sure.

THANKS

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee ok I did not know that about English

Again I go back to wanting to help - but boy this would be a big job...

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee Oh Yea the company options for Slovakia. If you could tell me the options for the start of German 9 for that territory - because I thought I could not even build there -but then I could... but then...
You get it.

Please just show me the turns for ideally defending any territory where you can build a company.

[JohnnyCat]

@trout @beelee. OMG I am calling Factories COMPANIES now... hahaha

[beelee]

@johnnycat

yea so looks like I had it wrong

So you can't buy a Fctry and move it underground same turn. Hmm Idky I thought that.

I think what it is that you can move an existing Fctry underground and upgrade to Hvy Ind same turn but now I'm not 100% certain on that.

I'm pretty sure you can. I've asked the Captain about this before.

At any rate, you can't buy a Fctry and move it underground same turn. I will check the Game Notes to see if I have that right.

I can check your game after bit but busy now. Trout knows what's going on with it more than I do

Edit
Looks like Game Notes are OK

Edit 2
OK I asked for clarification on going underground and updating to Hvy Ind same turn. I thought you could.

[Trout]

@beelee You can build minor or major factory in Slovakia since it’s a 3 territory that began the game as G. But can never build a factory and place units there in the same turn. Does that help?

[Trout]

@johnnycat ME-109’s can be built in any territory unlike a lot of the other special units but they must be placed directly on a carrier. But I already said I can let that go as a learning mistake. So you can just use them as normal fighters the rest of this game

[JohnnyCat]

@trout thanks but not necessary. I’m just trying to learn this stuff. It’s not about the game for me. That’s just a way to stay motivated to play more turns. though I thank you for all that flexibility.

Currently, for me I need to learn what is real, what the tripleA does right and wrong, what all these player enforced issues are.

So before i can even get to understanding this turns battles I need to know what’s doable and not.

So at the moment I’m trying to understand this factory production issue.

But if I you could answer my other questions about how to make sense of the current markers I’d greatly appreciate it.

[Trout]

@johnnycat Regarding what I have in Slovakia now. I was trying to help you because I have one Tank General there but I didn’t put them back in the box up top because I am assuming you will kill them attacking from Berlin. The armies are kind of a pain to set up for the combat rolls. Anywho, my guys are set up in Slovakia to where you can attack and the dice rolls will calculate accurately

[Trout]

@johnnycat If you do attack with a Panzer General you may need Beelee to walk you through how to do it as it is not intuitively obvious. But at least you don’t have to set up my units as they are already set up to defend properly

[JohnnyCat]

@trout thanks. But I can’t get to any of this until
I learn the factory build rules clearly. That’s still a big hole in my knowledge and this game is all About understanding it all and I need to get a consistent answer so I know what’s really doable.

And I’m not opposed
To playing this out, and already preached it three turns out so it might be fun, but I still Need to Understand these basics.

When I had problems in turn 4 I just wasn’t mapping all the units correctly. This time I counted and found you at 12 less units …. But somehow you they took that territory.

But like I said I need to figure out factories before I can look at the details of that battle.

But one question is how do I have a panzer general in the upper boxes but nobody else? Where did his 5 tanks go to ?

But dont answer that yet. I’ll see if I can figure it out first.

[JohnnyCat]

@trout

where is this "1st tank"?