Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5
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@redrum said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
Mech inf are actually probably one of the most OP units in the game because they can transport another unit. Pairing mech inf + inf allows you to have 2 units that can move 2 territories for 8 PUs. I tend to build a good number of mech inf as germany and some as russia. If anything you could maybe argue tanks are a bit UP compared to mech inf.
I didn't see the need to use fodder to do a truck/train job. It would be a difference if they could carry into combat.
In battle calculator I've never seen one fort beat 2 entrenchments. The problem is terrain bonus is multiplied by quantity. With base tech both are simply worse than plain infantry.
@hepps said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
Rockets were intentionally nerfed. They have not been readdressed since as few players ever use nor give feed back on them.
I see them only as disables of airfield scrambling to cover a move, like crossing channel or invading adjacent zone.
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@blackfox In most situations, its better to buy mech inf then trucks for transporting especially given you often have limited production. You almost never have enough trains to transport units and they are very expensive to buy more.
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@hepps ok new to the map and it is awesome so far. I am trying to learn the rules about the trains. I figured out how to use them but what about placing the rails? Does the territory need a factory or what do I need so I can place new rails?
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@tookarook just a material and engineer. Same as air bases.
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The battle calculator does not support how subs work. Subs can't be attacked at base tech because they submerge before rolls are made. But the calculator will show them getting wrecked.
There is a problem with scrambling. Fighters sent to Southern Britain or London don't get escort option and fighters in Central Britain can't intercept. The borders look adjacent.
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The sub thing, yes it doesn't warn you. Also in a few other places. I learned the hard way, when British still had a HeavyDD at game start, that if the DD dies to firststrikes, the detection is immediately gone.
Intercepts to adjacent are never possible I think. And for escorts you need to move fgt and bombers together, try putting them in a seazone and then move them into your target zone.
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@blackfox I will defer to @redrum for any and all BC questions.
I would need to see a save game... but I suspect that you are trying to send fighters to escort into territories where there are no defensive fighters. If you try to send fighters as an escort into a territory that has no defending fighters in the target territory (to intercept), the attacking fighters have no escort role, they will always directly attack whatever else is in the territory.
Intercepting only works in the territory being bombed... there is no scrambling to intercept. So you cannot intercept a bombing run with fighters that are stationed in an adjacent territory to the one being bombed. You can only "scramble" to adjacent territories to try and thwart a direct attack.
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@gully said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
Intercepts to adjacent are never possible I think. And for escorts you need to move fgt and bombers together, try putting them in a seazone and then move them into your target zone.
They do not have to be moved together. The easy way to remind yourself is if the prompt to decide whether to "Attack" or "Bomb/Escort" does not pop up when you move a fighter into an intended bombing target territory... then you know you have missed something and the fighters are 99.9999999999% assuredly wasting their time and will undoubtedly die in a futile attack.
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@blackfox The BC doesn't really deal with submerging/retreating very well. It simulates the battles out until one side loses or units can no longer target each other in most cases.
As @Hepps mentions, escort/intercept is only done for the territory the unit is in. Scrambling is the only operation which can be done to adjacent territories.
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Something wrong?
There seems to be two problems:- the windows appear in the wrong order (when doing strategic bombing: air defens fire, result of bombing and other ground combats are a mess, wrong order)
- before the result of the strategic bombing is shown, a smaller window with no text appears.
Here's the log:
Nov 22, 2018 8:21:39 PM games.strategy.engine.framework.GameRunner lambda$start$0
SCHWERWIEGEND: null
java.lang.NullPointerException
at javax.swing.ImageIcon.<init>(Unknown Source)
at games.strategy.triplea.image.DiceImageFactory.getDieIcon(DiceImageFactory.java:168)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.DicePanel.create(DicePanel.java:70)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.DicePanel.setDiceRollForBombing(DicePanel.java:36)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.BattleDisplay.bombingResults(BattleDisplay.java:165)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.BattlePanel.lambda$bombingResults$17(BattlePanel.java:408)
at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.access$500(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.WaitDispatchSupport$2.run(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.WaitDispatchSupport$4.run(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.WaitDispatchSupport$4.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.awt.WaitDispatchSupport.enter(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.Dialog.show(Unknown Source)
at javax.swing.JOptionPane.showOptionDialog(Unknown Source)
at javax.swing.JOptionPane.showMessageDialog(Unknown Source)
at javax.swing.JOptionPane.showMessageDialog(Unknown Source)
at games.strategy.util.EventThreadJOptionPane.lambda$showMessageDialogWithScrollPane$2(EventThreadJOptionPane.java:90)
at games.strategy.util.EventThreadJOptionPane.lambda$invokeAndWait$3(EventThreadJOptionPane.java:95)
at games.strategy.util.EventThreadJOptionPane.lambda$invokeAndWait$4(EventThreadJOptionPane.java:109)
at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.access$500(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)Nov 22, 2018 8:33:39 PM games.strategy.engine.framework.GameRunner lambda$start$0
SCHWERWIEGEND: null
java.lang.NullPointerException
at javax.swing.ImageIcon.<init>(Unknown Source)
at games.strategy.triplea.image.DiceImageFactory.getDieIcon(DiceImageFactory.java:168)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.DicePanel.create(DicePanel.java:70)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.DicePanel.setDiceRollForBombing(DicePanel.java:36)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.BattleDisplay.bombingResults(BattleDisplay.java:165)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.BattlePanel.lambda$bombingResults$17(BattlePanel.java:408)
at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.access$500(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)Nov 22, 2018 8:45:14 PM games.strategy.engine.framework.GameRunner lambda$start$0
SCHWERWIEGEND: null
java.lang.NullPointerException
at javax.swing.ImageIcon.<init>(Unknown Source)
at games.strategy.triplea.image.DiceImageFactory.getDieIcon(DiceImageFactory.java:168)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.DicePanel.create(DicePanel.java:70)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.DicePanel.setDiceRollForBombing(DicePanel.java:36)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.BattleDisplay.bombingResults(BattleDisplay.java:165)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.BattlePanel.lambda$bombingResults$17(BattlePanel.java:408)
at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.access$500(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)Nov 22, 2018 8:45:14 PM games.strategy.engine.framework.GameRunner lambda$start$0
SCHWERWIEGEND: null
java.lang.NullPointerException
at javax.swing.ImageIcon.<init>(Unknown Source)
at games.strategy.triplea.image.DiceImageFactory.getDieIcon(DiceImageFactory.java:168)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.DicePanel.create(DicePanel.java:70)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.DicePanel.setDiceRollForBombing(DicePanel.java:36)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.BattleDisplay.bombingResults(BattleDisplay.java:165)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.BattlePanel.lambda$bombingResults$17(BattlePanel.java:408)
at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.access$500(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source) -
and the save game0_1542916649052_3.tsvg
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@LovePlayingAAA Its a known error and has already been fixed in the latest pre-release with this PR: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/4140. Thanks for reporting it though.
The error is caused by the engine not properly finding and displaying the die image icon for '0' (miss for bombing). It doesn't cause any game problems so you can just close the error and ignore it. It'll be fixed in the next TripleA stable release.
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@redrum Hi, thanks for the response and explanation. Another bug is still present: "US seeking allies (here: turkey), they have success, but result is: Turkey is now at war with US and an ally of the axis." SaveGame is attached.0_1543009079904_USA won turkey as ally but now axix.tsvg
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I rolled Improved Destroyer for Britain, then attacked an Italian sub and no roll was made against it before it had submerge option. But the tech description says it stops submerge.
The Improved Subs tech seems lousy if it only gets +1 against destroyer for 1 round.
AA tech description says it enables rolls at 1/12, but it already has 1.
Tac bomber seems overpriced compared to fighter. It has net -2 to rolls and -3 in the important area defense, yet costs 1 PU more.
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@BlackFox said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
I rolled Improved Destroyer for Britain, then attacked an Italian sub and no roll was made against it before it had submerge option. But the tech description says it stops submerge.
The tech will only get activated after the turn it was discovered.
The Improved Subs tech seems lousy if it only gets +1 against destroyer for 1 round.
yeah, imp subs is only useful if you want to build adv subs.
AA tech description says it enables rolls at 1/12, but it already has 1.
it enables rolling for ground combats
Tac bomber seems overpriced compared to fighter. It has net -2 to rolls and -3 in the important area defense, yet costs 1 PU more.
imp range and support for tanks. While I agree fighters are the plane to go, some tacs in the right spot can really make some difference
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@wirkey said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
The tech will only get activated after the turn it was discovered.
I forgot to mention the attack was with a USA destroyer in the subsequent turn. The tech showed as being activated by then because tech sharing. It worked later.
@wirkey said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
it enables rolling for ground combats
It already has a base of 1 for ground.
SBR: I built 10 strat bombers for Allies and I have 12 navs and interceptors on the Atlantic for Axis. I tried some tests to see how the air battle math works, but the history text has no discernible relation to the casualties. What are the calculation steps?
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@BlackFox said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
@wirkey said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
The tech will only get activated after the turn it was discovered.
I forgot to mention the attack was with a USA destroyer in the subsequent turn. The tech showed as being activated by then because tech sharing. It worked later.
Did you get it with UK as shared tech? In that case US will also only get it after their turn.
@wirkey said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
it enables rolling for ground combats
It already has a base of 1 for ground.
SBR: I built 10 strat bombers for Allies and I have 12 navs and interceptors on the Atlantic for Axis. I tried some tests to see how the air battle math works, but the history text has no discernible relation to the casualties. What are the calculation steps?
10 Strat bombers against 12 defenders would be a no-go for me. If I'm not sure about the strength of escorts/interceptors I usually just try it in local mode.
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@BlackFox Essentially before a SBR, there is a round of air battles if the defender has any planes in the territory which can defend. The defender chooses if and which defending air units try to intercept then if they do each side rolls using air attack/defense values. The defender can choose not to intercept with any and in that case no air battle occurs. After that then AA is rolled then SBR is rolled.
For your example of 10 bombers and 12 n.fighters:
- Defender choose if and how many n.fighters to intercept with (probably would choose all of them)
- If defender chose at least 1 then air battle occurs for 1 round with attacker rolling dice for the 10 bombers air attack and defender rolling dice for 12 n.fighters air defense
- Any casualties removed
- Any AA rolled and casualties removed
- SBR rolls
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@redrum said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
If defender chose at least 1 then air battle occurs for 1 round with attacker rolling dice for the 10 bombers air attack and defender rolling dice for 12 n.fighters air defense
So the Attackers\Defenders Fire is for the remainder. Given they can hit multiple locations, it seems Axis will be losing most of the Atlantic stuff.
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The biggest problem with tac bombers is they are only used on the front line where the airfields will gradually disappear from bombing and territory trading. After some time air units will be useless unless lots of PU is spent on mats, which effectively makes maintaining air force too expensive. Ditto for trains. It becomes a liability trying to permanently hold each and every territory to never lose the rails and airfields.
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