Crazy Europe: House of Habsburg
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Its uploaded to Git
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@crazyg, @redrum
Wow... wow had me scratching my head over this. Glad everyone is on, or at least near the same page... (I think I'm just going to throw the book at @wc_sumpton)Cheers...
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@crazyg said in Crazy Europe: House of Habsburg:
Tested it on Revised. Tanks can move 1 space in both phases.
Edit: Duh blitz. I'm a fool. As long as its the engine and not my own error, I'm fine with it.
By intended rules, since Classic, a Tank cannot move 1 space in both phases, in any case. It cannot move of 1 space to friendly during combat move (tho TripleA doesn't support this restriction). It can move 1 space into a hostile territory, conquering it, but, then, it cannot move again during non combat move.
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@crazyg
Quick question, I see that the France line in the 'triggerAttachmentDeactivateMoveBonus' trigger has been commented out. When Sweden activates one of the givesMovement bonuses, the bonuses will stay active until Habsburg_Monarchy turn, which will give France those bonuses for free and they could use them during the combatMove phase.Just wondering
Cheers...
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You can have bigger non combat movement 2 ways.
- Triggering higher values in non combat, then triggering back lower in combat move.
- (without triggers) By the units giving bonus movement to themselves and having the step that gives this movement during non combat move (default is during combat move).
When I tested number 1 (triggering in and out movement to make for higher non combat movement) the only substantial issue I had was that ships that unloaded were able to move again, by the difference.
Doing it with number 2 (steps giving bonus during NCM, and not CM) the issue I had was that if allies had turns one after the other, the units during the CM phase of the ally going second would have the bonus movement, since the bonus was reset only in the moment it was given (you can get around this limit with a dummy player to reset it).edit: Edited to clarify.
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Hosting a no-tech dice game of the latest 30 minutes ago right now in lobby, if any1 is interested.
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@cernel said in Crazy Europe: House of Habsburg:
Doing it with steps giving bonus during NCM, and not CM, the issue I had was that if allies had turns one after the other, the units during the CM phase of the ally going second would have the bonus movement, since the bonus was reset only in the moment it was given (you can get around this limit with a dummy player to reset it).
Don't understand your question. In this case a trigger is called before the CM of every player to remove the NCM bonus, (if the bonus is there or not). Another trigger is call before NCM only if the player has the necessary Tech to assign the bonus.
Just trying to get a clear understanding of you question here.
Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton Not a question.
Edit: You can have bigger non combat movement 2 ways. Either by triggering higher values in non combat, then triggering back lower in combat move, or, without triggers, by the units giving bonus movement to themselves and having the step that gives this movement during non combat move (default is during combat move). If you go with the first solution, the steps I mentioned are irrelevant (you don't need steps, just triggers). Was just talking about my experiences in the past, not specifically what you are doing here.
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@cernel
I see said the blind man.Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton Edited my previous post to clarify. It was about my experiences in doing higher non combat movement, not about how you are specifically doing it here. Also, I've not tested again in more than 1 year, so these things may or may not still be true.
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@wc_sumpton
Not intentional, I'm at the gym, will fix when I'm back.@Cernel
Step properties are very buggy in my experience. I attempted to use them, but the step property to make units not receive bonus movement in combat move phase never did anything. I recall them working correctly a long time ago, but I've tried to minimize my use of this feature because it often led to hair pulling frustration (PoS 2 has very limited information about them).This map has to trigger them on and off anyways because different nations can have different movement speeds. I could do the TWW thing but this way seemed easier (though I could be wrong about that)
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@cernel
I understand what you are say. I just miss read it the first time. In HoH the bonus movement is granted by a tech, so whichever route that is taken 'change the movement value' or 'givesMovement' we still need the trigger to grant to only those that have the Tech before NCM and remove it prior the next players CM. So only the NCM step need to be set to true if we use 'givesMovement' because the trigger removes the bonus.I understand that this is different then what you are saying, I just misread you post the first time.
Cheers...
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@crazyg So, it has been some time, but steps always worked perfectly fine for me (beside the limiting behaviour to have 1 single step for giving and resetting the bonus movement, that anyway it is intended and documented). I'm worried about what you say, so I'll have to test it, to see if they got bugged off recently (if so, I hope the developers will fix).
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If one would want to be a purist, keeping triggering values endlessly in the various phases is sort of a hack. The non-hacky way to do this (if it even works, since I've not tried in a long time) would be to have all players units different (pikemen_France, pikemen_Habsburg…), having a step that disables bonus movement during all combat move phases and a step that enables bonus movement during all non combat movement phases; then, the tech would trigger the bonus movement self given on the unit only once. As I said, the only limit of a non combat bonus system (if it still works) is that the reset bonus is the step that gives it, so you need to alternate turns between alliances, because if you have two allies going one after the other, having the same kind of units, then, the second one will have the bonus during combat movement (this doesn't really make sense, but it is how it works; it would be better if the bonus are reset when the normal movement is) but, now that I think about it, in this case, giving different units (pikemen_France, pikemen_Habsburg…) already solves this issue; so the system I just described should actually work fully.
Edited a thing I overlooked.
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@cernel
Yes that would work, it was discussed earlier. This seemed like the easier path though. Especially since I might want to add more techs and things like support attachments can get really complex when all 8 nations have different units.You mentioned you played a few games, could I pick your brain about unit balance and starting positions?
Updated 1 missing "France". Let me know if you find other problems.
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@crazyg To be honest @CrazyG setting up the individual national units now would solve a lot of your issues and its far easier than you think.
Just create a separate file in note pad++
Copy the unit list you have in the XML to a blank file. then add "France_" to the beginning of each unit. Do the same for the 5 units you have.
Then copy that to a new blank file.... and use "replace all" for all instances of France with Habsburg. You since you can replace ALL in one click it takes about 2 minutes to create everything for everyone. Rinse and repeat for the other nations. Then you just paste the bundle into the appropriate spot in the XML.
Then you just do the same thing for all your conditions and triggers for all your different nations. Remember... you only have to create the full set for 1 nation.... then you copy it to notepad++ and repeat the nation name replace all.
It solves so many issues and allows you so much more flexibility down the road if and when you want to add new features.
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@crazyg The starting positions work. Also I noticed now Sweden goes first; that's a huge change, as before Sweden was doomed to fall easily. Balance, no point talking, game has changed a lot.
I won as Russia and won as Poland, so I don't really know who should be winning there.
The only problems I have with the starting stuff are of historical nature, and some I've already said.
I hate to have to see a St.Petersburg where there was a wasteland with a couple fortresses and was Russian anyways, not Swedish.
The Rhodes that is Italian is a minor matter, as it is recent, but then the Cyclades should be Italian, and mostly it seems too much to have a city in there, due to how rare cities are, and Crete and Cyprus were both much more populous than Rhodes.
Constantinople, at this time, was way bigger than any other cities. So it should be 15 (looking at the other cities around).
Also I think it would be so cooler if the map would have England and Scotland (England part of Habsburg and Scotland part of Franco). Leaving Britain neutral means that either it is out of the game or it is very easily farmable, that's really bad on historicity.
I see you went back not having a specific starting year. I think game sounds more neat if it refers to a specific year, even if you are not going to have it 100% on it.
So, long way to say that, as long as gameplay goes, the game seems sound to me, but I would wish you don't sacrifice historicity so much on the main things. -
@crazyg On unit balance, maybe there is not so much complementarity, due to the fact that costs are relatively very close, for an Axis & Allies style game. So I think it would be good making knights stronger and costing 24. Historically, however, this was the nadir of the cavalry and the time of the dominance of the infantry, as the massive formations of pikemen and musketeers were almost cavalry proof (tho the French couldn't possibly stop being horse lovers).
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@hepps
I think all issues are solved and I spent all that time trying to solve a non-issue (not being able to move twice is completely undocumented, I've played for more than a decade and I wasn't aware of it.@Cernel
Lets start with something which has been said more than a few time: gameplay comes first. I'm not intentionally sacrificing any historical accuracy either, the fact that saint petersburg didn't exist in the 16th century isn't common knowledge. And a quick google search revealed that there were important fortresses there, so I don't see what the issue is. I'm posted my source for the borders, Sweden controlled the area at the time.Venice is the most valuable city because its Venice (it doesn't matter if Constaninople was bigger in population, Venice is wealthy).
I don't want neutral farming to be too strong. Is it actually a good idea to farm England though? You mentioned that France is dieing every game, could it be because they are invading England? You have to commit a ton of resources and you need 2 or 3 territories just to pay the maintenance for the units you send. I would much rather pressure Barcelona and try to spread the Habsburgs thin while the Ottomans go hard in Europe.
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@crazyg I wouldn't go for Britain; so for me now that part of the map is not part of the game, but I cannot say it for certain. Time will tell if Habsburg should go kill France first or not, I guess; only way is playing either ways, and see what seems working the best. If England and Scotland are not part of the game, it would be better to make them impassable, as it doesn't make sense that you can attack part of them and the rest doesn't fight back (like Spain or Turkey in NWO).
