Polling Question - Which play style do you prefer?

General_Zod

I wonder if it would make sense to take the poll a step further. And gather more data on player preferences, while were at it.

But on the current poll question at hand. Do you want a specific re-wording?

Sample Poll

The question: I tend to use the territory tab for the following?

(choose all that apply)

a. to scan territories for unit specifics throughout game
b to scan territories for territory specifics throughout game
c. use when zoomed further out (further out than 75%)
d. use when zoomed further in (further in than 75%)
e. use when at any zoom level (10% to 100%)
f. use to get unit specifics for battle calculator input
g. use to get to the "battle calculator" button
h use to left click+hold+drag a territories units into the "battle calculator"
i. other uses not listed

It would be nice to also sort the results by 3 levels of experience. rawmeat, regulars, elite

redrum

@general_zod Might be interesting. The other angle you could consider is looking at either pain points or improvements poll that lists the things folks don't like about it now or the things they would look to improve/change. That might be a little more straightforward in how we could then use the results to influence development priorities.

General_Zod

@redrum

Ideally, that would require actual comments as feedback, so it would no longer be a poll. We can try it that way.

But I also think, something that would get us to similar place is...

A traditional poll with a list of maybe 10 common improvement requests and they can choose a maximum 3 of them. And also do a similar setup on the common pain in the ass side.

Hmm... Thinking on it more. The "pain in the ass" poll might not get us anywhere new (useful). But the "improvement request" poll sounds productive.

redrum

@general_zod Yeah, that was more what I was thinking. Have a list of 5-10 improvements that could be voted on. I think the only question is scope. Whether it makes sense to try to focus on just territory tab, unit display, entire in-game UI, or any feature request. As we obviously have a rather long list of feature requests on a lot of different areas and various levels of effort.

My thought is try to focus on the small wins where if "X" adjustment/change was made it would be a significant impact to many users. As that is probably more actionable than a poll on really large changes like add an in-game challenge system vs revamping entire game setup UI vs adding per map AI configuration, etc as those take a long time to make a reality.

Cernel

@redrum said in Polling Question - Which play style do you prefer?:

@general_zod I think the problem is most voters are answering it in terms of zoomed out vs zoomed in (which really doesn't mean anything without better stating what each of those would mean). Technically, you can only zoom in since you can't go above 100% anyways.

That's my guess as well. And, yes, technically, the zoom in option should have 0% votes, as you can never zoom in, but I didn't want to nitpick.

Cernel

My experience is that there are people that zoom out NWO and people that play Feudal Japan without zooming out; so I think the variability is extreeme.

redrum

@cernel There are people that really zoom out on NWO... That's insane. Can't imagine NWO is even playable at 50% zoom.

CrazyG

@redrum
You need to zoom out on WaW and TRS just because of the oceans. I used to zoom out to move Germany's subs, then zoom in for the East, but after while I just left it zoomed out. The unit stacks are so large that you always end up battle calcing anyways.

For specific feedback about the territory tab
1- is there a hotkey to open it? There is for the battlecalc, which makes it more appealing IMO
2- the scroll is way to slow
3- the tabs section in general isn't that space efficient. Its width is set by the mini-map and if the mini-map is small you end up with a tiny area to actually view things

General_Zod

@cernel Is there a chance they don't understand the question? Sure. I think the poll still gives a general picture of player preferences, zoomed in for max detail or zoomed out for a wider view, no matter what map it is. They most likely have proportions they favor and set the zooms accordingly.

Cernel

@redrum I actually use the territory tabe fairly frequently, to double check. Meaning first I do my stuff without, then I double check with the territory tab. The reason is not just to see the units, but to add them up to the battlecalculator without skipping any, since in the territory tab you have them listed, instead of distributed. But I definitely believe a good map should allow you play without needing the territory tab but very rarely (tho, of course, it may happen that at some point there are so many units that confusion overflow is not a map fault, and the territory tab is needed). Not really needing to use the territory tab is one of the reasons WWIIv6 is one of my favourite maps.

Cernel

@crazyg said in Polling Question - Which play style do you prefer?:

@redrum
3- the tabs section in general isn't that space efficient. Its width is set by the mini-map and if the mini-map is small you end up with a tiny area to actually view things

I actually prefer very tiny minimaps, since you can enlarge, but never reduce under. The units need only a small wideness, so I don't see the reason to have a wide right bar, that just takes out board view. I actually wanted to have a minimap 1/2 of current in WAW, but @redrum preferred the current dimensions.
In the image I posted, you can see the units take less than half the bar wideness.
I would actually like to be able to shrink the right bar smaller than the wideness of the minimap (not possible).

Or you mean to view the descriptions above the units?

Also, beside the minimap wideness, but only after you resize it or switch to history mode, the minimum wideness of the sidebar is also determined by other stuff; not sure what. But it is always set to the minimap wideness when you open the game. You can test in maps with very small minimaps that after you resize, then you can't reach the wideness of the minimap anymore, being forced by something to more than that.

I still suggest having 2 bars; one for the actual "Territory" stuff, the other for the "Units" only.

General_Zod

I think a good map in it's current UI, needs to utilize territory tab. There is clearly a substantial group that plays from a zoomed out perspective most of the time. That alone says they must be using the territory tab, or they eat a lot of carrots. hehe

It's really just deducing what they must be doing to make that work out.

But the territory tab has other uses. It is helpful in the sometimes extremely cumbersome process of loading the battle calculator from the list of units it displays in territory tab.

redrum

@crazyg Yeah, the size different between sea and land territories in NWO/WaW/TRS is crazy. I tend to just scroll around a bunch when moving sea units rather than zooming out but I can see the reasoning. Thoughts:

I don't believe so but could be added. Something like ctrl+T would probably work.
Yeah, I've noticed that as well and usually have to click on the scroll bar to move it.
Agree, I've thought about trying to break up the whole tab side panel all together. Move the minimap to bottom right. Move territory panel to bottom left. Then the rest primarily just have buttons/hotkeys to open/close like a flyout where the tab panel is now as needed to see stats/moves/economy/NOs.

Cernel

@general_zod Well, anyways, people like having a ton of different units choices. WAW now has an option for much reducing the total units in the game, and I'm under the impression nobody tick that option off ever.

Cernel

@redrum said in Polling Question - Which play style do you prefer?:

Agree, I've thought about trying to break up the whole tab side panel all together. Move the minimap to bottom right. Move territory panel to bottom left. Then the rest primarily just have buttons/hotkeys to open/close like a flyout where the tab panel is now as needed to see stats/moves/economy/NOs.

I'm not sure I get the picture, but I think I like the current disposition, just would split the territory tab in two, for descriptions and units, as I said.
Also, the Economy tab can not be displayed for games having only PUs (already in Stats).

General_Zod

@cernel Yeah, you mean have a units tabs and a territory tab? That would be an easy fix. for some of the issues.

At least until a new UI can be well thought out and developed in future. As a stop gap, it seems reasonable.

Cernel

@general_zod Yes, that's what I was saying. Tho once people switch to 4k there will be more than enough space, with 48x48 units...

CrazyG

I think all the information relavent to territories themselves should go in the bottom (where the PUs and terrain are currently displayed). Changes have been moving in that direction for a while anyways

General_Zod

@crazyg Theres really no room at bottom for it, in current UI design.

Cernel

@crazyg I don't believe this is feasible. There may be a lot of info, sometimes. Definitely you don't want to take space on Y, with any big horizontal bars.