Arheic Wars / Pangea Proxima A&A

jkprince

@thedog Yeah, I will return to using GIMP and keep my small map dimensions as-is for now, complete it at the current scale, and then run it through Inkscape once I have drawn all the borders to upscale it

The biggest problem seems to be that Inkscape doesn't like tracing single pixel lines

TheDog

@joseph-prince
The quick ones

Trace a bitmap. Try reducing the the bitmap in size, say 1/2 it. Then run the trace tool, then resize it.

Fill tool, are you using it to fill sea zones?

1px Border
Select the whole map
Fill and Stroke (on the right)> Stroke Style> Width=1> mm=px

jkprince

@thedog there are a few gaps but small enough they will probably disappear when exporting to bitmap.
still at a loss for how to draw the actual borders in Inkspace, should I just export it now that I've made the no borders outline 4x larger? Then draw the borders in GIMP

I'm interested in the fractal system thing but tbh if its hard to use then I can't be bothered ill just draw borderish looking borders myself.

or, I could go back to the 3778x1827px file, draw rough sketch of the borders, export again, trace again, then use the fractal tool to make the borders look better and also upscaled

TheDog

Fractalize
Highlight the path/lines you want to Fractalize.
Extensions> Modify Path> Fractalize
Have a play

jkprince

@thedog
yeah it doesn't look very good

TheDog

Borders
Do you have a 1px rectangle that surrounds the whole map? If so you need to remove it.

jkprince

@thedog That's the original image underneath the path

TheDog

Maybe you can download a pangea svg version close to your version
https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=601184441&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB812GB812&sxsrf=ACQVn0__VSM9fWfF3EFB3lt8Kwe690y2jA:1706129569178&q=pangaea+map+svg+free+download&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjGiqX38_aDAxXP_7sIHeiGCwcQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1777&bih=832&dpr=0.9

or try

1/2 the original bitmap or maybe 1/4
In Inkscape trace the 1/2 bitmap
Select all nodes/lines and reduce the lines to 1px
Now you might have to remove nodes to smooth/flatten the lines to stop the lines from crossing each other (You might have to delete a lot of nodes)
Select all nodes/lines again and reduce the lines to 1px

Fractalize session should be the last thing before exporting to png.

jkprince

@thedog yeah no, I'm going to keep the map the same scale as the 1940 global map, dealing with this inkscape thing has been a 5 hr waste of time. I can always come back to it with my finished base tiles image later if i want to

when I make units they will be larger 96x96 files though, with their ingame scale set lower
also don't worry about the oceans on both sides of pangea proxima, i will place important things for game mechanics there

jkprince

@joseph-prince

making all the territories is tricky, deciding connections, names, etc all that. (the grey areas are impassable, the slightly grey striped ones are semi-impassable/hostile)
so i think im gonna stop and im gonna think of finishing it later, I havent even started on sea zones

RogerCooper

@joseph-prince Making maps is hard. Try to keep the number of territories small, The anniversary edition map is 162 areas (only 95 land areas). Small games are easier to mod than big games.

Take a look at the Grand War mod (https://github.com/triplea-maps/the_grand_war). The designer created a complete alternate history scenario, with interesting nations with some background provided and a new map (of 190 areas). And it is fun to play.

If you are feeling frustrated, try using an existing map as a basis for a mod, which is much less work.

Note that there is an auto-connection tool which saves some work.

jkprince

@rogercooper yeah, I think I'm going to aim for a territory+sea zone number around that of A&A v3 1942, maybe higher but not like Global 1940 level high
The Grand War mod is great map, I want to make my new one with its own individual good looking visual style to set it apart from the other maps, just like the Grand War did
I've used existing maps before, https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/2190/churchill-s-1939 and https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/2773/churchill-s-1939-thread-2
but i want to go bigger this time and make a new map (not from scratch, I am using an existing image)

jkprince

@joseph-prince
Edit 27 January 2024
Removed Naval Seaplane A3/D0/M3/C12. A weird hybrid air/sea unit. Cannot partake in land combat and can’t defend itself. Negates all special sub abilities. Can use up its full movement and land on water, stranded until any friendly warship stops for it to fuel up and return home. This is obviously impossible in TripleA. I may replace it with a more simple land-based Naval Bomber unit, but I really want it to be clear that the unit is land-based only and can't be used by carriers, but people are liable to be confused if its called Naval Bomber and isn't a seaplane yet it can't be put on carriers.

Changes I am considering:

Is Recon's stats suitable for AI? Will AI understand how its towing system works? Or should I instead take away towing, up Recon base attack to 1 and make it go up more when paired with Mech Inf, Armour or Tac Bomber. (And add alternative 2-movement Self Propelled Gun / Tank Destroyer versions of the Arty and Anti-Tank units respectively).
Is Armour too cheap now, should I bring it back up to 6 IPC cost?
Is Recon underpowered as-is even for its low price?
Is Elite underpowered for its 5 IPC price (should I lower it to 4?) Or should I keep the price the same but give Elite something extra, like the ability to be transported 1 Elite per Cruiser or Battleship?
Is the Anti-Aircraft Cruiser buff enough to make it useful? Or should I make the AA more powerful (identical to a land based AA unit i.e one shot at up to 3 enemy planes rather than just 1)
I'm thinking of removing the Cruiser Submarine unit, isn't it redundant?
I'm thinking of adding a new unit, Motorized Infantry / Reserves. It has same base stats as Mechanized Infantry (A1/D2/M2/C4), it cannot blitz, tow or anything, but it does recieve arty support on attack and it also pairs defensively with a new infastructure called "Train Station" I will elaborate on infastructure shortly.

jkprince

@joseph-prince Infrastructure
Note: As with AAG40 all infrastructure has built in AA
Airbase: Allows Air Scramble. Modifies all Aircraft movement by +1. Needed to repair certain special units (Aircarrier / Flying Wing). Interceptors specialize in scrambling and with an airbase they can scramble 2 territories away, and with airbase + major industry, 3 territories away

Harbor: Allows Naval Scramble / Sortie. Mod Naval movement by +1. Needed to repair certain special units (Battleship, Aircraft Carrier). Harbour AND Major Industry needed to repair super special units (Floating Fortress). Torpedo Boats specialize in defending harbors and receive a +1 to defense if in a neighboring SZ to a harbour, if they have not already received that +1 defense by pairing up with a Cruiser.

Railyard: Allows Land Scramble / Rapid Reserves. Mod Land move by +1. Needed to repair certain special units (Heavy Tank, Armored Train). Railyard AND Major Industry needed to repair super special units (Fortress Tank). When not placed on a Major Industry, allows units to scramble to defensive battles or to assist attacks made by allies as far as their unmodded Land move can (so a 1 move stat Infantry can scramble to the defense of a neighboring territory, 2 move stat Armour can defend the neighbor of a neighbor). If the Railyard is paired with Major Industry it allows the units to scramble WITH their +1 bonus move added.

Industry
In this version, there are no Industrial Complex pieces. Industry is instead represented on the board and can only be changed by national objectives. In territories originally controlled by the enemy of the current owner, industry operates at one level lower than its marker (i.e Fronterozt, a Circulean minor industrial region, operates as only a micro for its Starian occupiers.). The size level does not affect the number of units that can be produced by the territory, which is controlled by the territory’s IPC per turn value.

Industrial Complex size levels
None: No icon. This territory cannot produce anything, unless it has a + symbol, in which case it can only produce that unit type.

Micro: Single smokestack icon. This territory can normally only build Infantry, Artillery, Recon, Mechanized, Elites, Anti-Air, (+ Cruisers and Torpedo Boats if coastal) A occupied Micro industry is downgraded to None until liberated.

Minor: Double smokestack icon. Infantry, Artillery, Recon, Mechanized, Elites, Armour, Anti-Air, Fighters and Light (Tactical) Bombers. (+ Transports, Destroyers, Submarines, Cruisers and Torpedo Boats if coastal)

Major: Triple smokestack icon. This territory can build any type of unit that is not in the Special section (which can only ever be produced by + bonuses). Apart from + bonuses, only Major industry can produce Heavy (Strat) Bombers (+ Carriers, Battleships if coastal)

Bonus Production or + symbol: Indicated by the icon overlaid over the plus, it opens production for that unit if the territory would normally be unable to build it. (I.e, the Triangulic Aeiran Blur, despite having only Micro industry, can produce Fighters thanks to the + bonus, representing the Starian Parliamentary Dominion exile govt’s focus on air defense.). A couple territories get multiple plus sign bonuses. The bonus doesn’t apply for anyone but the original owner of the territory.

TheDog

At this stage I would not be too worried about PU cost of units, having approximates at this stage is good enough. :thumbs_up:
Its more important to get the units abilities as you want them, only then can you point them, as their purchasing worth is dependant on the group they are in, see below.

The AI purchasing is quite complex.
It groups units into;

Land Attack (high attack compare to other units in group)
Land Defence (high defence compare to other units in group)
Land Fodder (low PU cost compared to other units in group)
and also for Sea & also for Air units, there are more groups like amphibious. Units can be in more than one group.

The AI then ranks them with a probability to purchase within each group.

You might be able to have your seaplane, but I think the AI might struggle with its restrictions, for now keep it in. Likewise with the Motorized Infantry / Reserves, in for now.
Testing will dictate if the units are redundant/worthless/duplicated etc.

jkprince

@joseph-prince
Removed Cruiser Submarine: A2/D1/M2/C7. A slight upgrade to the normal Submarine, being able to choose whether it blocks enemy fleets, and also being able to shoot at aircraft. However, it only rolls for 1 on blockade damage. Hey, it can bombard on a 2…like that’ll ever be useful.

Edited Hypercarrier, removing its former 24 IPC price in favour of making it a special unit provided for free by events.

Added Motorized Infantry but not as a special mobile reserve unit, just a fast version of Infantry with no extra abilities but costing 0.5 IPC less than Mechanized. Instead, I will make it so that all land units can scramble out of Railyards as far as they can move normally without the Railyard's +1 bonus (so ones with 1 move can guard neighboring territories, and ones with 2 move can guard neighbors of neighbors.) If the Railyard is placed on a Major Industry territory its units guard as far as they can move WITH the +1 bonus (so ones with normally 1 move can guard neighbors of neighbors, and ones with 2 move can guard 3 territories away, sufficient to cover pretty much an entire country... so yeah that's why I'm not adding fortification units, because having a mobile reserve in your capital on guard is enough defense). Just keep in mind not to scramble your entire reserve because they'll have to slowly return to the railyard in order to do it again

Some more units I am considering:
If the AI doesn't understand towing functionality, I will make mobile versions of the Anti-Tank and Artillery units, with similar method to how I balanced Mot. Infantry (i.e no other changes but adding 0.5 to cost and 1 to movement). I might even make it so there are basically 3 tiers of mobility:

1-move non motorized units (basic Infantry, Arty, Anti-Tank)
2-move motorized units with no other special bonuses but which can be easily converted from non-motor units (Motorized Infantry, Mot. Arty, Mot. Anti-Tank)
3-move mechanized units which gain blitz when paired with tanks and sometimes other bonuses (Mech. Inf, Self-Propelled Gun, Tank Destroyer).

Making certain extra powerful special units be only buildable by certain nations
Circles get Super-Heavy Armour, Heavy Armour and Mechanized Elites. By a couple turns into the game they build up neurotoxin gas missiles which will inflict heavy damage on enemy homelands.
Stars get Heavy Armour, Mechanized Elites and Armoured Trains. They also start with the best network of support infastructure (airbases, harbours, railyards) which will allow them to defend their gains.
Triangles get cheaper Elites (costing only 4.5 instead of 5 when bought in pairs), cheaper Interceptors (only 9 rather than 10 IPC) and cheaper Battleships (only 16 rather than 18 IPC). They also get Heavy Armour but no other special units.
Hexagons get Aircarriers/Air Refuelers, Hypercarriers/Floating Fortresses and Armoured Trains. However, they don't get Heavy Armour. They also start in the worst position because of their Interior Desert settlement megaproject has left a sizable population inside Triangulic borders.
The various Rhombic factions provide their sponsors with cheap levies and support units (Conscripts? Tankettes? Biplanes?) in order to contest the region at minimal cost possible.
Later into the game, the AI controlled Squarish and Diamondic factions might join in. The Squarish get cheap wheeled Armour (only 4.5 rather than 5 cost) and pulse jet aircraft (6 movement by default). The Diamondics get rapid deploying mountaineers (spawned by triggers) and high speed ships (3 movement by default no harbour required)

wc_sumpton

@joseph-prince

Caution needs to be used when using scramble/escort/intercept with non isAir units. These rules were added to the TripleA engine, and do not follow movement rules. A land unit that can scramble can be moved to engage into a water battle, and sea unit can scramble to engage into a land battle. Unlike isAir unit, which are allowed to move after a battle, these unit cannot move. Even with "Scrambled Units Return To Base", these unit will remain in the embattled territory.

Cheers...

jkprince

@wc_sumpton said in Arheic Wars / Pangea Proxima A&A:

@joseph-prince

Caution needs to be used when using scramble/escort/intercept with non isAir units. These rules were added to the TripleA engine, and do not follow movement rules. A land unit that can scramble can be moved to engage into a water battle, and sea unit can scramble to engage into a land battle. Unlike isAir unit, which are allowed to move after a battle, these unit cannot move. Even with "Scrambled Units Return To Base", these unit will remain in the embattled territory.

Cheers...

I'm fine with non-air units remaining in the embattled territory they scrambled to, but definitely not land units scrambling to sea battles and vice versa. Good to know this limitation!
Does it also make it possible for units to scramble over a impassable territory as well? Or would it be possible to keep these rules functional by representing naval warfare through other functions rather than on the map

wc_sumpton

@joseph-prince

As stated in PoS2:

canScramble						values: allows the aircraft to enter a surrounding sea zone if the enemy is doing an attack on or from the surrounding sea zone
maxScrambleDistance					values: the distance out an aircraft can scramble. anything higher than 1 is not supported well at this point.

So only the first territory scrambled into is checked for "isImpassable", after that no rules are applied. So a unit with 'canScramble' and 'maxScrambleDistance' at '3' can move over any non "isImpassable" territory on it first move, over any territory on its second move, and then enter any embattled territory on it final move.

Also, unlike regular movement, the engine prechecks for scramble units, and only those unit that it determines can scramble are allowed. So once non "isAir" unit are assigned "canScramble" or "maxScrambleDistance" is set greater then '1', then rules break down.

Cheers...

jkprince

@wc_sumpton How annoying. I hope scramble rules get fixed up so that mods can make use of them to greater extent, because I really like the concept of making A&A almost a "constant-turn" game where you can react to opponents moves as they make them