Dragon War 1.2.3 - redrum (Evil) vs Black_Elk (Good)
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Getting control of a dragon quickstyle seems to be the ticket for an early press. Seems to be easier to capture a dragon if you have already dragon. Wonder if maybe each team should just get one to start. Or have a hatchling that improves over time like Frostion mentioned
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@Black_Elk Actually I mentioned the hatchling with food upkeep
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Dragons are supposed to be strong, but not so strong that they are unbeatable. Maybe instead of autohealing, it could cost food to heal them. Or alternatively they must just be toned down in stats.
Anyway, when I get time to try to use the TUV attachment for the AI neutrals, the AI will not be so defensive from start. That will probably also change the map a lot. Maybe the young dragons will not let themselves be captured so easily, and maybe go on the offensive themselves.
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@Black_Elk Yeah, the map is a bit snowbally because once you get a dragon its easier to use that dragon to capture another one. Dragon strength and spawn location is something that definitely needs changed. Also making dragons have a bit less movement range could help avoid them flying all over the map as 6 movement plus being able to "kamikaze" gives them about half the map range.
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TripleA Turn Summary: Lionia round 6
TripleA Turn Summary for game: Dragon War, version: 1.2.3
Game History
Round: 6 Combat Move - Lionia 1 unit repaired. 1 Hvy-Cavalry and 1 Lgt-Cavalry moved from Lionport to Orangerock Mountains Lionia take Orangerock Mountains from Kobolds 1 Brown-Dragon and 1 Red-Dragon moved from Samarkum to Ironhorn 1 Lgt-Cavalry moved from Samarkum to Sea Zone 42 1 Large-Ship and 1 Lgt-Cavalry moved from Sea Zone 42 to Sea Zone 36 Lionia take Sea Zone 37 from Crowton Lionia take Sea Zone 36 from Crowton 1 Lgt-Cavalry moved from Sea Zone 36 to Greyhood Holdings 1 Hvy-Cavalry moved from Lion Heights to Farhaven Lionia take Farhaven from Undead 1 Hvy-Cavalry moved from Lion Heights to Illyria 1 Crusaders moved from Jade Mountains to Illyria 1 Crusaders and 1 General moved from Lion Heights to Jade Mountains 1 Lgt-Infantry moved from Wolfendale to Grand Peaks Lionia take Grand Peaks from Kobolds Combat - Lionia Battle in Greyhood Holdings Lionia attack with 1 Lgt-Cavalry Crowton defend with 1 Marines Lionia roll dice for 1 Lgt-Cavalry in Greyhood Holdings, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.38 expected hits Crowton roll dice for 1 Marines in Greyhood Holdings, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.25 expected hits 1 Marines owned by the Crowton lost in Greyhood Holdings Lionia win, taking Greyhood Holdings from Crowton with 1 Lgt-Cavalry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for Crowton: 1 Marines Battle in Ironhorn Lionia attack with 1 Brown-Dragon and 1 Red-Dragon Crowton defend with 1 Capital-City, 1 Castle and 1 Monster; Undead defend with 1 Blue-Dragon Lionia roll dice for 1 Brown-Dragon and 1 Red-Dragon in Ironhorn, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1.38 expected hits Units damaged: 1 Blue-Dragon owned by the Undead Crowton roll dice for 1 Blue-Dragon, 1 Castle and 1 Monster in Ironhorn, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 1.50 expected hits Units damaged: 1 Red-Dragon owned by the Lionia and 1 Brown-Dragon owned by the Lionia Lionia roll dice for 1 Brown-Dragon and 1 Red-Dragon in Ironhorn, round 3 : 2/2 hits, 1.38 expected hits Units damaged: 1 Blue-Dragon owned by the Undead Crowton roll dice for 1 Blue-Dragon, 1 Castle and 1 Monster in Ironhorn, round 3 : 1/2 hits, 1.50 expected hits Units damaged: 1 Red-Dragon owned by the Lionia Lionia roll dice for 1 Brown-Dragon and 1 Red-Dragon in Ironhorn, round 4 : 2/2 hits, 1.38 expected hits Units damaged: 1 Blue-Dragon owned by the Undead Crowton roll dice for 1 Blue-Dragon, 1 Castle and 1 Monster in Ironhorn, round 4 : 2/2 hits, 1.50 expected hits Units damaged: 1 Red-Dragon owned by the Lionia 1 Monster owned by the Crowton lost in Ironhorn Lionia roll dice for 1 Brown-Dragon and 1 Red-Dragon in Ironhorn, round 5 : 1/2 hits, 1.38 expected hits Crowton roll dice for 1 Blue-Dragon and 1 Castle in Ironhorn, round 5 : 1/1 hits, 0.88 expected hits Units damaged: 1 Red-Dragon owned by the Lionia 1 Blue-Dragon owned by the Undead lost in Ironhorn Lionia win with 1 Brown-Dragon and 1 Red-Dragon remaining. Battle score for attacker is 11 Casualties for Crowton: 1 Monster Casualties for Undead: 1 Blue-Dragon Non Combat Move - Lionia Purchase Units - Lionia Lionia buy 1 Crossbowmen and 2 Mariness; Remaining resources: 6 PUs; 2 Food; 0 Wood; 0 Metal; Place Units - Lionia 1 Crossbowmen and 2 Mariness placed in Lionport Turn Complete - Lionia Lionia collect 45 PUs; end with 51 PUs Units generate 6 Metal; Lionia end with 6 Metal Units generate 8 Food; Lionia end with 10 Food Units generate -15 PUs; Lionia end with 36 PUs Units generate 3 Wood; Lionia end with 3 WoodCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Crowton : 0.38 Lionia : 1.13 -
TripleA Turn Summary: Undead round 6
TripleA Turn Summary for game: Dragon War, version: 1.2.3
Game History
Round: 6 Combat Move - Undead 1 Lgt-Infantry moved from Millshire to Avalonia Undead take Avalonia from Lionia 2 Zombiess moved from Bridge of No Return to Spectoria Undead take Spectoria from Dwarves 1 Zombies moved from Zool Twins to Runedelf Undead take Runedelf from Kobolds 1 General, 1 Lgt-Cavalry, 1 Lgt-Infantry and 1 Zombies moved from Plagued Fields to The Hinderlands 1 Giant-Bat moved from Necroloft to Sea Zone 46 1 Hvy-Infantry moved from Haunted Moorland to Sea Zone 49 1 Hvy-Infantry and 1 Large-Ship moved from Sea Zone 49 to Sea Zone 52 1 Auxiliaries moved from Deadrock to Sea Zone 52 1 Auxiliaries, 1 Hvy-Infantry and 1 Large-Ship moved from Sea Zone 52 to Sea Zone 53 1 Auxiliaries and 1 Hvy-Infantry moved from Sea Zone 53 to Farhaven 1 Auxiliaries moved from Bluebeard Island to Sea Zone 47 1 Auxiliaries and 1 Small-Ship moved from Sea Zone 47 to Sea Zone 46 1 Auxiliaries moved from Sea Zone 46 to Wilderpoint 1 Small-Ship moved from Sea Zone 49 to Sea Zone 46 1 Large-Ship moved from Sea Zone 59 to Sea Zone 52 1 Zombie-Plague moved from Plagued Fields to Sinfjord Combat - Undead Undead creates battle in territory Sinfjord Battle in Farhaven Undead attack with 1 Auxiliaries and 1 Hvy-Infantry Lionia defend with 1 Hvy-Cavalry and 1 Mine Undead roll dice for 1 Auxiliaries and 1 Hvy-Infantry in Farhaven, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.75 expected hits Lionia roll dice for 1 Hvy-Cavalry in Farhaven, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.38 expected hits Undead roll dice for 1 Auxiliaries and 1 Hvy-Infantry in Farhaven, round 3 : 1/2 hits, 0.75 expected hits Lionia roll dice for 1 Hvy-Cavalry in Farhaven, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.38 expected hits 1 Hvy-Cavalry owned by the Lionia lost in Farhaven Undead win, taking Farhaven from Lionia with 1 Auxiliaries and 1 Hvy-Infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 10 Casualties for Lionia: 1 Hvy-Cavalry Battle in Sea Zone 46 Undead attack with 1 Giant-Bat and 2 Small-Ships Lionia defend with 1 Small-Ship Undead roll dice for 1 Giant-Bat and 2 Small-Ships in Sea Zone 46, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.13 expected hits Lionia roll dice for 1 Small-Ship in Sea Zone 46, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.38 expected hits 1 Small-Ship owned by the Lionia lost in Sea Zone 46 Undead win, taking Sea Zone 46 from Lionia with 1 Giant-Bat and 2 Small-Ships remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9 Casualties for Lionia: 1 Small-Ship Battle in Wilderpoint Battle in The Hinderlands Undead attack with 1 General, 1 Lgt-Cavalry, 1 Lgt-Infantry and 1 Zombies Ogres defend with 2 Ogres Undead roll dice for 1 General, 1 Lgt-Cavalry, 1 Lgt-Infantry and 1 Zombies in The Hinderlands, round 2 : 3/4 hits, 2.13 expected hits Ogres roll dice for 2 Ogres in The Hinderlands, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits 2 Ogres owned by the Ogres and 1 Zombies owned by the Undead lost in The Hinderlands Undead win, taking Wilderpoint from Lionia, taking The Hinderlands from Ogres with 1 General, 1 Lgt-Cavalry and 1 Lgt-Infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 99 Casualties for Undead: 1 Zombies Casualties for Ogres: 2 Ogres Non Combat Move - Undead 1 Giant-Bat moved from Sea Zone 46 to Sea Zone 45 Purchase Units - Undead Undead buy 1 Knights and 2 Large-Ships; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 2 Food; 0 Wood; 13 Metal; Place Units - Undead 1 Knights placed in Necroloft 2 Large-Ships placed in Sea Zone 49 Turn Complete - Undead Undead collect 52 PUs; end with 52 PUs Units generate 9 Food; Undead end with 11 Food Units generate 6 Wood; Undead end with 6 Wood Units generate 15 Metal; Undead end with 28 Metal Units generate -15 PUs; Undead end with 37 PUs Undead creates 1 Zombies in SinfjordCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Ogres : 0.00 Undead : 0.25 Lionia : -1.13 -
@Black_Elk Well played with the dragons. I didn't realize they'd have as good as odds against Ironhorn and you got good rolls as well. Guess we'll see if they can survive any counter attacks.
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Total desparation strike hehe. I wasn't quite sure how it works, if they remain under red control with no other units accompanying, or if its up to that lone gnome to keep them for the team lol
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TripleA Turn Summary: Dwarves round 6
TripleA Turn Summary for game: Dragon War, version: 1.2.3
Game History
Round: 6 Combat Move - Dwarves 1 Halflings moved from Halfling Meadows to Ironhorn Dwarves take Ironhorn from Crowton 1 Hvy-Cavalry moved from Dol Ulum to Misty Forest Dwarves take Misty Forest from Ogres 1 Gnomes moved from Westerfoss to Dathic North Dwarves take Dathic North from Murlocs 1 Gnomes moved from Dol Ulum to Mount Thoril 1 Lgt-Infantry moved from Mount Thoril to Adamant Mines 1 Gnomes and 1 Halflings moved from Gnomen Lowland to Halfling Meadows 1 Halflings moved from Faranwall to Kumbadur Hills 1 Hvy-Infantry moved from Faranwall to Kumbadur Hills 1 Auxiliaries moved from Faranwall to Kumbadur Hills Combat - Dwarves Battle in Kumbadur Hills Dwarves attack with 1 Auxiliaries, 1 Halflings and 1 Hvy-Infantry Crowton defend with 1 Spearmen and 1 Windmill Dwarves roll dice for 1 Auxiliaries, 1 Halflings and 1 Hvy-Infantry in Kumbadur Hills, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits Crowton roll dice for 1 Spearmen in Kumbadur Hills, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.38 expected hits 1 Spearmen owned by the Crowton lost in Kumbadur Hills Dwarves win, taking Kumbadur Hills from Crowton with 1 Auxiliaries, 1 Halflings and 1 Hvy-Infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9 Casualties for Crowton: 1 Spearmen Non Combat Move - Dwarves Purchase Units - Dwarves Dwarves buy 1 Ballista and 1 Cannon; Remaining resources: 10 PUs; 3 Food; 0 Wood; 4 Metal; Place Units - Dwarves 1 Ballista and 1 Cannon placed in Ironhorn Turn Complete - Dwarves Dwarves collect 35 PUs; end with 45 PUs Units generate 6 Wood; Dwarves end with 6 Wood Units generate -15 PUs; Dwarves end with 30 PUs Units generate 4 Food; Dwarves end with 7 Food Units generate 6 Metal; Dwarves end with 10 MetalCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Crowton : -0.38 Dwarves : 0.00 -
TripleA Turn Summary: Crowton round 7
TripleA Turn Summary for game: Dragon War, version: 1.2.3
Game History
Round: 7 Combat Move - Crowton 1 unit repaired. Trigger Crowton fishing in Sea Zone 19: Crowton has 1 Whales placed in Sea Zone 19 1 Lgt-Infantry moved from East Parnesis Desert to Ironhorn 1 Air-Balloon and 1 General moved from Maragorn to Ironhorn 1 Marines moved from Maragorn to Sea Zone 26 1 Lgt-Infantry moved from Lost Mountains to Sea Zone 21 2 Large-Ships and 1 Lgt-Infantry moved from Sea Zone 21 to Sea Zone 22 1 Auxiliaries moved from Stormwood to Sea Zone 22 1 Lgt-Cavalry moved from Oldengard to Sea Zone 22 1 Large-Ship and 1 Marines moved from Sea Zone 26 to Sea Zone 22 1 Auxiliaries moved from Oldengard to Sea Zone 22 2 Auxiliariess, 3 Large-Ships, 1 Lgt-Cavalry, 1 Lgt-Infantry and 1 Marines moved from Sea Zone 22 to Sea Zone 28 2 Auxiliariess, 1 Lgt-Cavalry, 1 Lgt-Infantry and 1 Marines moved from Sea Zone 28 to Ironhorn 1 Green-Dragon moved from Sea Zone 22 to Ironhorn 1 Marines moved from Glassville to Sea Zone 19 1 Marines and 1 Small-Ship moved from Sea Zone 19 to Sea Zone 28 Crowton take Sea Zone 20 from Pirates Crowton take Sea Zone 23 from Pirates 1 Marines moved from Sea Zone 28 to Ironhorn 1 Auxiliaries and 1 Hvy-Infantry moved from The Outlands to North Durlan Hills Crowton take North Durlan Hills from Elves 1 Water-Dragon moved from Sea Zone 21 to Sea Zone 31 Combat - Crowton Battle in Ironhorn Crowton attack with 1 Air-Balloon, 2 Auxiliariess, 1 General, 1 Green-Dragon, 1 Lgt-Cavalry, 2 Lgt-Infantrys and 2 Mariness Dwarves defend with 1 Auxiliaries, 1 Ballista, 1 Cannon, 1 Capital-City, 1 Castle and 1 Halflings; Lionia defend with 1 Brown-Dragon and 1 Red-Dragon Crowton roll dice for 1 Air-Balloon, 2 Auxiliariess, 1 General, 1 Green-Dragon, 1 Lgt-Cavalry, 2 Lgt-Infantrys and 2 Mariness in Ironhorn, round 2 : 6/10 hits, 4.13 expected hits Dwarves roll dice for 1 Auxiliaries, 1 Ballista, 1 Brown-Dragon, 1 Cannon, 1 Castle, 1 Halflings and 1 Red-Dragon in Ironhorn, round 2 : 5/6 hits, 4.63 expected hits 2 Auxiliariess owned by the Crowton, 1 Auxiliaries owned by the Dwarves, 2 Mariness owned by the Crowton, 1 Red-Dragon owned by the Lionia, 1 Cannon owned by the Dwarves, 1 Brown-Dragon owned by the Lionia, 1 Halflings owned by the Dwarves, 1 Air-Balloon owned by the Crowton and 1 Ballista owned by the Dwarves lost in Ironhorn Crowton captures one of Dwarves capitals Crowton win, taking Ironhorn from Dwarves with 1 General, 1 Green-Dragon, 1 Lgt-Cavalry and 2 Lgt-Infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Crowton: 1 Air-Balloon, 2 Auxiliariess and 2 Mariness Casualties for Dwarves: 1 Auxiliaries, 1 Ballista, 1 Cannon and 1 Halflings Casualties for Lionia: 1 Brown-Dragon and 1 Red-Dragon Non Combat Move - Crowton Purchase Units - Crowton Crowton buy 2 Crossbowmens; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 5 Food; 5 Wood; 9 Metal; Place Units - Crowton 1 Crossbowmen placed in Ironhorn 1 Crossbowmen placed in Glassville Turn Complete - Crowton Crowton collect 40 PUs; end with 40 PUs Units generate 7 Food; Crowton end with 12 Food Units generate -30 PUs; Crowton end with 10 PUs Units generate 6 Wood; Crowton end with 11 Wood Units generate 6 Metal; Crowton end with 15 MetalCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Crowton : 1.88 Dwarves : 0.38 -
@Black_Elk Yeah, didn't work out too well. Being able to purchase the turn you capture a factory is interesting and at least made it closer.
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R.I.P. Good Dragons
A nation holding his own capital costs 15 PUs per turn. Holding two costs 30 PUs. This should favour the underdog a bit, and put strains on the nation strong enough to capture a capital. I am curious to hear if this strain can be felt, and if the capital-less nation feels the PU boost?
(I know that it is maybe overshadowed by the strong dragons at the moment.)
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@Frostion It definitely does. Crowton's income took a big hit with that -30PU/turn. It actually almost feels like capturing a capital was a bad move. I thought about it a bit and came to this calculation for Crowton/Dwarve:
- Crowton gets the 6PU but -15PU so -9PU total
- Dwarve gets - 6PU but +15PU so +9PU total
- Dwarve loses free weak unit each turn probably worth ~5PU & 5 other resources so maybe worth ~15PU so -15PU total
- Crowton gains and Dwarve loses capital unit production building probably worth a few PUs/turn
So that leaves Crowton -9PU, Dwarve -6PU, and swapping ownership of capital unit production so essentially close to a wash depending how you value the free unit and capital production. I can see wanting capital capture to not be complete game over but this feels a bit too harsh on the capturing side. Really going after the free unit generation territories outside of the capital is way better.
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Yeah I'd say its a done deal. I'd keep it going, but I have to travel for the holidays, so probably easier to call it now. We can start another when I return in a week or so, if you're into it.
I hadn't considered the cost of the capital, guess I didn't read the notes very carefully hehe. Figured a revenge kill on some of those enemy dragons would at least show us a nice couple battles for the climax.
Fun stuff! Will be interested to see how I hold up in a rematch now that I have a slightly better grasp on what's what.
Good game man
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@Black_Elk GG. Yeah, interesting map. Definitely needs a bit of balancing but kind of a unique setting and mechanics. Enjoy your holidays!
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Yes @Black_Elk Have a good time! I will see if I can update Dragon War within a couple of days.
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back from my trip if you want to get something going again. Looks like dragon war got an update, so I could be down for a rematch.
I'm also keen to hit Iron War again, though still waiting to see if any of those suggestions are taken up. I think there are definitely some marked differences between the PvP and the AI solo for overall-balance, but I think some of that map stuff would be cool for either playstyle with more +5 tiles. The AI does well when it can push new production along several fronts, and I think having more factory capable spots usually adds gameplay interest for both sides in PvP, cause factories are just fun units to build/destroy hehe.
I'm also curious how the AI purchasing might differ with a steel tweak x10, like going double digits for the steel costs of the current steel units, and single digits for the all rest of the stuff that doesn't have a cost in steel right now.
I think thats the main thing the map needs... upping the total steel such that stuff which currently costs 1 steel would cost 10-19, or 2 steel would be 20-29, 3 steel 30-39 etc, and then using infantry as the base at the low end, with a cost of 1 steel for basic fodder under the new regime. Building it up from there and filling out the gaps. Maybe aircraft cost 8 or 9 steel? AAguns 3 or 4? whatever, but basically finding a way to price things out so that every unit needs at least some steel to enter play. What do you think of the idea?
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@Black_Elk Let's give the new Dragon War another shot to test out @Frostion's changes. I think it'll play significantly different due to the AI now having a more reasonable value on its neutral units. Feel free to start one up as figure we can switch sides and evil goes first (all 3 in a row).
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Right on. I'll bang out a turn when I get back later this evening
