Total World War: December 1941 3.0.0.6
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@LovePlayingAAA Yes, TWW just released a new version v3.0 with the above updates. GD is still in development at this point.
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@redrum 400 series updated
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@Hepps 500 and 600 series done now as well.
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@prastle Thank you.
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@Hepps NP bro Thank @LaFayette for fixing my ssh
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What is 400 500 600 series?
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@LovePlayingAAA The bots in the online lobby.
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I didn't see anything in the games' notes section that explains how the new sub system works (or for any other important changelog stuff). did I miss it somewhere?
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@zlefin The notes haven't been updated yet. This post outlines the sub/destroyer changes: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/493/total-world-war-december-1941-beta-2-8-0-5/392 (there were a few adjustments to that original vision).
Essentially there is no "isDestroyer" attribute to totally cancel sub abilities. The sub targeted attack against destroyers was removed and destroyers/strats now have a targeted attack against subs. Air units can also hit subs now even without a destroyer. Surface ships also give subs negative support on defense so that grouping subs into your surface fleet for defense isn't as effective. Using the in game unit tooltips or unit help should allow you to see the abilities of subs/destroyers/strats.
The major results of all of this is that subs are more useful in open water (away from coasts which can be defended with scrambling), more useful throughout the game as no isDestroyer, and not as effective for defending surface fleets.
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@zlefin As Redrum says the game files themselves are lacking ATM. I will be posting the significant changes in detail here as I have the time.
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hmm, will need to play with them some to assess them. Looking at the math, it seems like subs are very strong right now as a counter to naval units.
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@Hepps and your elves: Thanks for taking TWW to the next level! I am eager for playing
But: Is the new submarine / destroyer logic really working the way it should? Depth Charge Attack seems possible only for DD and tact bomber so far - is that correct?
Also: When attacking, subs remain weak against scrambling aircrafts, since the aircrafts defend at their usual defense values - was that supposed this way?
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@zlefin I generally feel subs are probably a bit too strong in this initial 3.0 but we want to play a few games to see how it plays before making any adjustments (I also think it made N.Fighters a bit stronger since they can now scramble against subs). Mostly just want to put @Hepps fleets at the bottom of the ocean with my wolf pack a few times to thoroughly convince him but I'll take other volunteers as well
@spartan Depth Charge is actually only available to DD and strat bomber (not tact). So those are essentially the units that can hunt down subs at the moment.
Yes, allowing air to scramble to defend against subs is intentional. This is to somewhat counter there not being a hard isDestroyer type unit anymore and simulate that defending fleets along coasts was generally much easier than open sea against subs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlantic_gap
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There seems to be a bug concerning uk china lend lease. Fighter has not been changed from uk to chinese, instead it has been deleted.
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@Krautz Ok, I'll take a look at it. I don't think anything should have changed around L&L in 3.0 but I'll double check and see if I can reproduce it.
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Here is the v3.0 change log:
v3.0.0.0
- Revamp sub/destroyer mechanics to make game play more dynamic and less about just researching ImprovedDestroyers. Subs are meant to be strong units in open water that are difficult to hunt down but weak when trying to defend surface fleets and facing scrambling air defenses along coasts.
- All air units can now target Sub/AdvancedSub without a Destroyer (can scramble to defend against them)
- All surface ships give -2 support on defense to 1 Sub/AdvancedSub to decrease Sub/AdvancedSub effectiveness when defending fleets
- Sub/AdvancedSub units: removed targeted defense against Destroyer/HeavyDestroyer
- ImprovedSub tech: increases Sub attack to 5 instead of increasing targeted defense
- Destroyer unit: added DepthCharge targeted attack of 1 against Sub/AdvancedSub
- HeavyDestroyer unit: removed
isDestroyerand added DepthCharge targeted attack of 3 against Sub/AdvancedSub - ImprovedDestroyer tech: increases Destroyer DepthCharge to 2 instead of give
isDestroyer - StratBomber unit: added DepthCharge targeted attack of 1 against Sub/AdvancedSub
- HeavyStratBomber unit: added DepthCharge targeted attack of 3 against Sub/AdvancedSub
- ImprovedStratBomber tech: increases StratBomber DepthCharge to 2
- Add German N.Africa Protectorates to show German control over the area and simulation Allied invasion impact.
- Morocco and Algeria are both Protectorates so generate no income but if they both are owned Vichy receive a free material each turn
- If either or both are captured by the Allies then the rest of Vichy N.Africa turns to German owned and Vichy's capital becomes an Occupied territory giving its income to Germany
- Add Vichy Toulon Fleet events to show Vichy naval presence along Southern France and allow for operation Lila.
- Added immobile German ships to SZ44: BB, Cruiser, 2 Destroyers, 2 Subs, and Transport
- Added event if 1 of the 2 N.Africa Protectorate territories are captured by the Allies then on the next German turn they receive user action to pay 1 PU per ship to try to prevent them being scuttled (2/12 chance) and turn to regular German ships
- Add Vichy Dakar Fleet events to allow for Operation Menance.
- Added immobile German ships to SZ64: BB and Destroyer
- Added event if West Africa is captured by the Allies then Dakar Fleet transforms into regular UK ships
- Add several automatic unit placements in Western Europe and Africa (Both Vichy & Exiled Allies) to increase strategic value of capturing these territories.
- Western France: 1 UK inf
- Morocco: 1 UK inf
- Tunisia: 1 UK inf
- West Africa: 1 UK inf
- Gold Coast: 1 UK inf
- Cameroon: 1 German inf
- French Equatorial Africa: 1 German inf
- Increase PU and ownership of a few African territories to increase strategic value of controlling these territories.
- Morocco: Increased PU to 2
- Tunisia: Increased PU to 2
- West Africa: Increased PU to 2
- Nigeria: Increased PU to 2
- French Central Africa: Starts as Vichy controlled
- Revamp sub/destroyer mechanics to make game play more dynamic and less about just researching ImprovedDestroyers. Subs are meant to be strong units in open water that are difficult to hunt down but weak when trying to defend surface fleets and facing scrambling air defenses along coasts.
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@redrum said in Total World War: December 1941 3.0.0.0 (Now Available):
@spartan Depth Charge is actually only available to DD and strat bomber (not tact). So those are essentially the units that can hunt down subs at the moment.
Yes, allowing air to scramble to defend against subs is intentional. This is to somewhat counter there not being a hard isDestroyer type unit anymore and simulate that defending fleets along coasts was generally much easier than open sea against subs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlantic_gapThanks for the explanation, redrum! Though I am not sure yet if I´d agree - let´s see how the first round ends up
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After a lot of talking with different people I Like what you are trying to do with subs, i.e. make them the stealthy, survivable, niche type of unit they were.
But I don't like how you are doing it. Especially with no defense.
A crazy idea that plopped into my head is this:
What if Subs were invisible? It can't be done on the boardgame but it can be done on a PC: They would not be visible except if a destroyer was on them.
Keep the mechanic of Subs always being able to dive too.
Nerf them a bit in terms of attack or increase cost.
Nerf the destroyer a bit and lower costs so you can have more of them.This way the game turns into a real cat and mouse style of hunting down subs/killing convoys.
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@Ondis Its a cool idea and very similar to implementing a fog of war system. That being said, enhancing TripleA to be able to do that would be a lot of work so not something that is really achievable in the short-term.
I'd be interested in why you think subs having little to no defense isn't a good direction? The idea is that they don't really need defense as they can submerge and really weren't used to protect surface fleets.
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