Total World War: December 1941 3.0.0.6
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Well subs are used to protect carrier groups today and were lingering around them in WW2, but it doesn't really matter. If someone wants to use subs in the defensive role they should be allowed to do so.
If subs are accompanying a fleet they won't chicken out as their comrades are being slaughtered.
Plus it really makes for any type re-organization from Sub fleet to navy or even the other way quite cumbersome from a gameplay perspective.
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@Ondis Well you touched on some of the intentions of the change. Whether they are good or bad are somewhat up to each player's opinion but I'll describe the thought behind them
So subs still provide their HP to the surface fleet so aren't completely useless (HP/fodder is often what you need most to protect BB and carriers anyways). They are just less effective as part of a surface fleet to simulate that they lose a lot of the element of surprise in comparison to hunting in wolf packs or alone.
One of the goals is to create more variation across ships so that not everything feels like almost the same unit with just slightly different strength/cost and that they each have more of a defined role. Subs are meant to be used for attacking/harassing and controlling open waters while destroyers are meant for protecting capital ships and hunting subs.
The more defined roles and variation across ships forces the player to make more long term strategic choices when purchasing units and determining what their goals are. It also creates more of a counter play type system so it becomes less of whoever has the most ships wins and more which types of ships you choose to build and how you position them. If they want to primarily create surface fleets and try to amphibious assault then destroyers are probably a better choice to protect their capital ships and transports. If they want to instead try to harass opponent fleets and force opponents to build more ships to protect their transports then subs are a good choice.
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Well for me it's silly. There are some aspects you perhaps haven't considered. Say I have a huge sub fleet and a couple of surface ships like germany had. A big battle is coming where I need to defend, but in my case I might be better off with just using the subs, cause of this artificial limitation. It makes absolutely no sense that a sub is stronger on the defense on its own than if accompanied with surface ships. If you want it like this then remove sub def completely and lower cost further.
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@Ondis That can never happen. If you have a huge sub fleet and add any number of destroyers (or other stronger surface ships) the fleet will always be stronger on defense then just the huge sub fleet alone.
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Ah. Each ship only negates the defense of one sub. Alright, I missed that. It's better gameplay wise but absolutely nonsensical. This whole setup doesn't make sense to me and seems to just force a type of gameplay instead of letting the player discover it on their own.
All of this isn't because that makes sense, but because one wants to force a certain gameplay.
I like the intentions of it but I'd rather have more versatile subs than this.
In fact, and this may sound crazy, I would rather limit defense of subs when on their own, as that would indicate a sort of ambush or something like this, as opposed to when with surface ships that can readily warn them and where they can turn around and fire their torpedoes. -
@Ondis Well, I don't think there is much else I can say if you disagree that subs during ww2 were generally not as useful to protect surface ships as they were as lone hunters or in wolf packs. I'd encourage you to read this article which discusses how submarines were mostly utilized: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Atlantic
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Of course they were more effective, but that is on the attack, not on the defense, so two different subject matters entirely. You've not limited their attack capacity in conjunction with other ships but their defense.
On the issue itself I'd suggest keeping the removed AA defense that they had before vs Destroyers but letting them defend at least at 1 and 2 respectively, regardless of situation, or 1-3 if you prefer that. Maybe even 2-3.
Still like the direction as I said, but without fog of war of some sorts ambushes are just too unlikely and they will find themselves hunted into oblivion in the high seas as it is now, not being able to be rescued by the main surface fleet in any effective manner due to their inability to contribute significantly to any fight.
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Did I miss something and there is this new feature that the EA don't get to produce anything? Doesn't seem right..tww ladder wirkey vs chewbaluba.tsvg
EV 1.9.0.0.11612
MV 3.0 -
@wirkey Not sure quite what you mean, could you describe the issue a bit more? Also you should probably upgrade TripleA to the latest stable version 1.9.0.0.13066.
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@redrum EA doesn't have any production phase
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@chewbaluba @redrum @Hepps yeah, EA don't have any money in rnd1, but still can't produce in later rounds with PUs
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Im not sure about the issue overall but the subtraction is probably due to the occupation/protectorate status of certain provinces, no?
They should still be getting a few PUs, but just a few. For a couple of provinces in Africa and the one in the UK.
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@wirkey Ah I see. There is a bug in 3.0 causing the Exiled Allies PUs to be set to 0 at the start of the UK turn. And then since they have no money, it skips their turn. If you edit back in their PUs after the start of the UK turn then it should work fine. I'll look to put a fix in for 3.0.0.1.
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@wirkey @chewbaluba This is fixed and will be in the next TWW release.
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@redrum When will the next release be available? I jist started a game and now I have to wait, until release is ready - right? Or can I do a manual repair by myself?
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@LovePlayingAAA Probably this week. You can use edit mode to get around some of the issues but there isn't anyway to fix existing save games when the new release comes out.
Here is what will be included in the next release so far:
v3.0.0.1 (in-progress)
- Fix some missed HeavyDestroyers by removing isDestroyer
- Fix StrategicBombers and HeavyStrategicBombers by removing defensive AA (not used and simplifies tooltips)
- Add trigger for converting any vichy and exiled allied units to major in sz42, sz48, sz61, sz62, sz64
- Fix technology tab
- Fix unit icons
- Fix Vichy and Exiled Allies Occupations and Protectorates income deductions that were firing twice
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Thanks for the feedback!
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3.0.0.1 is now live. Please update and provide any feedback here.
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