Total World War: December 1941 3.0.0.6
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is right that research centers should only take 2 materials to build after improved defensive structure tech is achieved? currently it only charges you 2.
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@ubernaut said in Total World War: December 1941 3.0.0.6:
@colin any combat move prevents a move in noncombat unless you are an airplane.
You are correct, but, as offloading is actually a movement for the cargo, not for the transport, this rule would be irrelevant for the @colin case if the units were already on board at the start of the turn (as them moving as cargo is not a movement for them, only for the transport), no matter if they were plotted to be offloaded (if they weren't, and, in the TWW case, the transport was already in the hostile sea zone at the start of the turn (meaning one or more enemy units were mobilized in the same zone), with units already on board, and didn't plot to offload anything, thus just retreated because other units of the turn power were sent into the hostile zone, to generate a battle during which the decision of retreating (these units together with the non-moved transport) was taken, the matter would be all the more clear, in that the cargo didn't move at all (as being cargo aboard a unit that retreats is not a movement for the cargo, either)).
To be clear, while in TripleA you move a land unit being cargo assigned to a sea unit from a hostile sea zone into the land zone the unit is offloading into, this movement doesn't actually happen until the sea zone is still hostile (therefore, a unit that was already on board a retreated transport at the start of the turn never actually moved, on the turn). To clarify, while TripleA makes you move every unit offloaded into an enemy territory during Combat Move, in theory only the units offloaded from friendly sea zones are offloading during Combat Move, while the units offloaded from hostile sea zones are offloading during Conduct Combat if at all, instead.
The reason why you cannot offload anything in Non Combat Move from a unit that was retreated during Conduct Combat is that the rules specifically forbid retreated units to offload anything for the rest of the turn (in all basic rules set), and TripleA offers no property for not having this behaviour (likely because the beaviour is the same for all basic games).
Of course, if you loaded a unit during Combat Move, to offload it during Conduct Combat, then after retreating the transport the unit cannot offload anymore also for the reason you are mentioning, but here this rule is superfluous, as you are always specifically forbidden to offload any transports that retreated on the same turn, anyway (if the only reason would be the rule you mention, then you could not Non-Combat offload off retreated transports units that you loaded on the same turn, but you would be able to offload units that were already on board at the start of the turn).
@Panther might want to check I didn't proffer heresies.
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@Cernel way too late in the day (22:34 local and 4.5 strongish beers in) for me to digest that reply. i'm gonna have try again tomorrow.
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@Cernel sounds about right to me.
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noticed that sweden's combat engineers are not able to make amphibious assaults.
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@ubernaut no CEs of any Neutral can make an amphibious assault. Only regular inf can.
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@wirkey oh thanks.
i wonder why that is… 
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Is there a known bug that gives carriers a second live as a damaged carrier even though no improved carriers has been researched. There is no option to assign two hits to it but in the round after the one it is lost a damaged carrier appears.
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save game containing it can be founf here:
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/2043/tww-3-0-warmup-with-dice-gully-ax-vs-ntsh-al/231 -
@Nothingtoseehere can you provide a save game?
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@Nothingtoseehere can you provide where and when that occured?
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Germany's attack on the Norway seazone, right in its last turn ger9.
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strange, maybe @Hepps can take a look at it?
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I looked into it a bit more. It doesn't occur here: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/2038/tww-3-0-0-6-8-colin-ax-vs-ubernaut-al-episode-3/39 with 1.9. but it does occur now in 2.1+. Was there some change to the <option name="whenHitPointsDamagedChangesInto" value="1:true:britishCarrier-damaged"/> in between those versions? since that seems the (sorta) obvious place for things to go wrong.
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@Nothingtoseehere said in Total World War: December 1941 3.0.0.6:
I looked into it a bit more. It doesn't occur here: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/2038/tww-3-0-0-6-8-colin-ax-vs-ubernaut-al-episode-3/39 with 1.9. but it does occur now in 2.1+. Was there some change to the <option name="whenHitPointsDamagedChangesInto" value="1:true:britishCarrier-damaged"/> in between those versions? since that seems the (sorta) obvious place for things to go wrong.
In the latest 1.9 release damaged units don't change if reaching max damage, while in 2.0 they do (this is an added feature that allows turning dead units).
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@Cernel So it could be fixed by moving the option from unit stats to tech activation of improved carriers?
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@Nothingtoseehere In my opinion, this has been a case of bad coding. I think attachments should not have useless options in them.
In the specific case, the unit attachments ending in "Carrier" have the "whenHitPointsDamagedChangesInto" set at value "1:true:*Carrier-damaged".
Since the unit has 1 hit point, this option was useless for the latest 1.9.0.0 release, until before a trigger would change the hit points of the unit to 2, since receiving 1 damage would destroy the unit before changing it (in the 2 release, instead, it changes the unit instead of destroying it).
As I said, I see this as a case of bad coding (but I'm not sure about it, so I would be interested in opinions from the developers), as I would rather add the option only in the moment it is useful. Meaning not having the "whenHitPointsDamagedChangesInto" option in the unit attachments, and, instead, adding it, with the same values, at the same moment the unit is given 2 hit points (this would also fix the current problem).
However, I really wonder if my point of view is right, in general, as one could argue that having useless options already in the unit attachments minimizes the amount of coding (the option is already there, so you don't need to give it, in the moment you give what makes it useful).
I guess the only reason why this problem hasn't been fixed, yet, is time. I could fix the problem, for example, but I would need someone to assure me the changes would be readily reviewed and merged (or the map being declared owned by no-one but TripleA, so that it can be done by any active repository member), plus someone to volunteer testing the new game shortly after it has been merged and reporting whether or not the game is working correctly (since I don't play this map and I would want someone else taking care of testing), plus someone telling me which digit should I upgrade (currently it is "3.0.0.6" and I don't know if it would become "4.0.0.0" or "3.1.0.0" or "3.0.1.0" or "3.0.0.7") plus someone assuring me no extra game file changes are demanded (I'm mostly looking at the notes that still have "version 2.7" in them, and I don't intend to make or modify artwork images to have everything consistent).
Side note, can the "2.8' game be deleted in favour of keeping the "3.0" one, as the only game of the map?
I see that the games of this map still have the long deprecated "trigger" option in the trigger attachments. However, since TripleA is very inconsistent at documenting deprecation, I'm not even sure this is actually a deprecated option (if a developer can confirm that it is, then I would advise changing all occurrences with its non-deprecated equivalent, of course).
If nowhere is documented what makes a change a first, second, third or fourth digit worthy one, I strongly suggest fully documenting it, as a comment within the game file (every game should do this, especially since I believe TripleA is not giving any guidelines, on this matter).
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@Cernel i think 3.0.x is still being balanced relative to 2.8 but i'm not certain of that.
anyway im happy to do any testing needed.
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