Maps on tripleA web and maps "downloadable" in game



  • Hi, I'm new so I have around a dozen questions.

    1. Why are maps on https://triplea-game.org/maps-list/maps/
      and ingame "download maps" different?

    2. Are the twoweapons developments "Increased Factory" and "Paratroopers" broken in the tripleA game itself (i.e. they are broken on all maps) or are they just broken on certain downloaded maps?

    3. Are the dice rolled in game every time or does the program generate a table of random numbers (saved somewhere) and use those? Because I noticed the game outright cheats sometimes. E.g. I have a savegame with an impending battle where I loaded it 30 times and results are quite clear. It's not random. Now if random numbers are stored in a table somewhere and then used, then this would explain the game's behaviour, which is why I asked.
      (And yes, I know about low luck, I'm more interested in how this game works when not in low luck)


  • Admin

    I will only answer 1. and 3. because I'm sure that other people here can answer your second question way better than I ever could. I'm not that into game mechanics.

    Why are maps on https://triplea-game.org/maps-list/maps/
    and ingame "download maps" different?

    Hard to answer because they aren't (or at least they aren't supposed to) both map entries are generated from the same file, so the listed maps should exactly be the same.
    When sorting by Category you'll notice that this is more like the In-Game ordering if that confused you.
    If a map is actually missing in one list, that would be a bug. Please point one out if you find one.

    Are the dice rolled in game every time or does the program generate a table of random numbers

    Neither of both statements is 100% true.
    For local and online games TripleA is using so called "pseudo-random" numbers (MersenneTwister algorithm to be precise) to generate dice rolls.
    Pseudo-Random algorithms take an arbitrary number as seed (mainly system time based in our case) and generate "random-looking" numbers based off that seed. So using the same seed the same numbers will be generated in the same order every time.
    If you want to have "real" randomness (if you believe that it exists, or simply randomness that doesn't simply exclusively come from a mathematical function), you can try out PbEM/PbF which uses an external dice server to generate random numbers.
    But there's a catch to your thesis: This seed for the local game isn't dependent on your savegame, it gets generated every time you launch a game, so the actual numbers you get should differ by a random amount. I'd be interested in the actual dice rolls. If they are the exact same every time, this might be an issue with the seed generation.


  • Admin

    @hellblade Responses:

    1. Most likely you missed that there are different tabs at the top of the in-game downloads which sort the maps into the different categories. But given that the website and in-game downloads pull from the exact same place, they should be exactly the same list of maps (please post screenshot or which maps are missing if not).

    2. I'm not aware of any issues with those 2 developments. Can you clarify which map you are playing and provide a save game showing them researched but not functioning?

    3. As @RoiEX explains, it depends a bit on what type of game you are playing local vs lobby vs PBF/PBEM but in all cases the dice are generated using fairly standard random algorithms. The dice rolls aren't saved into any table and each time you load the save, you should see completely different rolls. If you have some examples showing it not working like that then we'd be interested in seeing it.



  • @RoiEX Thx for your answer to 1.

    1. If it is indeed generated each time and unrelated to savegames, then there seems to be a problem. Either the game deliberately aids the losing side (maybe to make it more exciting) or it's aiding the Hard AIs on purpose (maybe to make it more challenging).

    The savegame I experimented on (unfortunately deleted) was not just "not random" it wasn't anywhere near random. It was roughly like this - first round I should have gotten 20 kills on average. My first try was 11 kills, which got me pissed so I loaded again.

    Out of the 30 times I tried afterwards, 29/30 got BELOW 20 kills. Min was 3, max was 22. On average I'd say it was about 25. You can bet this isn't random.

    That was 3 days ago, when I made an account here and thought I would post the savegame here for anyone to try out. But I wasn't accepted for so many days I gave up and deleted the savegame.



  • @redrum
    2. The "highest quality" big world 1942 v3 map.

    Paratroopers heavy bomber cannot be controlled, meaning it can't get to places where it is supposed to reach. The path it travels is dictated by the game, which, of course, does not know to travel AROUND certain places. This is a problem as the rule dictates the plane can only drop troops on the 1st hostile land it reaches.

    For increased factory, all factories on land of value 2 does not benefit from the increase.
    I maybe wrong though, as the rule seems to imply that ALL factories are supposed to benefit. http://axisandallies.wikia.com/wiki/Increased_Factory_Production



  • Are you playing with Low Luck dice off???

    what a shame he lost his Savegame.

    Anyone seen Shulz, anyone seen Ondis?


  • Moderators

    @hellblade When you start the game, there is an "Help:Movement/Selection Help" thing that any players should take care to read, to mostly know how to use the controls. This is the line you need:

    CTRL-Left click on a territory to select the territory as a way point (forces units take the shortest path to move through this territory on their way to the destination).

    Sorry to ear you were blocked out of the forum for a few days. Never been a fan myself of the admin acceptance requirement.


  • Admin

    @hellblade Responses:

    Paratroopers - you can use CTRL+click to set waypoints to ensure you get the path that you want

    Increased Factory Production - This is working properly and the wiki site doesn't provide a full explanation. Here is the Errata from A&A Anniversary which Big World is based on (https://www.axisandallies.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Axis-Allies-50th-Anniversary-Errata-FAQ.pdf)

    Increased Factory Production: The first sentence should replaced with: "Each of your industrial complexes in a territory worth 3 or more IPCs can now produce two additional units beyond its listed IPC value." 
    

  • Moderators

    @hellblade This is how the v3 tech is documented in my "WWIIv3 1941 Move-Buy-Move" game, that uses regular v3 technology (like I assume BW v3 does too). I believe this covers it all:

    Technology

    *** Air/Naval Tech ***
    SUPER SUBS- submarines attack at 3
    JET POWER- fighters attack at 4
    IMPROVED SHIPYARDS- submarine, transport and destroyer costs reduced by 1; cruiser cost reduced by 2; carrier and battleship costs reduced by 3
    AA RADAR- AA guns hit on 2 or less
    LONG RANGE AIRCRAFT- aircrafts range increased by 2
    HEAVY BOMBER- roll 2 dice for each bomber in attack, but use only the lowest one, and 2 dice for each bomber in bombing raids, but use only the highest one

    *** Land/Production Tech ***
    IMPROVED ARTILLERY SUPPORT- artillery support 2 infantry
    ROCKETS ADVANCE- AA guns conduct rockets attacks, with a range of 3, for 1d6 damage to production (each factory may only be targeted once per turn, and only 1 AA gun in each territory may fire) (AA guns conducting rockets attacks can't move)
    PARATROOPERS- bombers may carry 1 infantry each into hostile land territories only (both units must begin their movement in the same territory; the bomber can't make a bombing raid; the bomber must stop its Combat Move movement in the first land territory it enters that was enemy owned at start turn; if the attacked territory has only AA guns and no other defending units, the AA guns are automatically captured without firing; if the bomber is hit by AA guns, the infantry it carries is also destroyed; paratroopers alone have no way to retreat; if retreat is possible, paratroopers retreat together with all other retreating land units)
    INCREASED FACTORY PRODUCTION- factories produce 2 additional units, if territory value is 3 or greater; repair 1/2 price, rounded up
    WAR BONDS- collect 1d6 extra PUs each turn
    MECHANIZED INFANTRY- armours may carry 1 infantry each



  • Thank you all, you've answered/solved all my problems and allowed me to play happily.