Panzerman's full wish list for TWW



  • These rules can be applied to any game but TWW is the closest to how games should be played.
    Air Superiority (Achievable) and armor Superiority can be added to any game (Not sure how you intend to have Armor superiority, can only be achieved with AA attacks and defenses as far as I know) might have some serious effects on gameplay. Main reason for armor is so the anti-tank does not have such as high defense value against infantry and artillery unless they are mobile anti-tank. Just thought if you could have separate air battle you could have separate armor battle with winners going on the main battle,
    Attacking and defending hits from planes only count against each other and the same with the tanks, mech, and anti-tank until that particular column is out and any spill over hits apply to other units including ground strafes.
    The air battle goes first (Achievable), and then the armor battle (unachievable as far as I know), survivors of both ends up on the main land battle. You can still pick mechanized infantry and antitank instead of tanks.
    There should also be air superiority at sea as well before the main sea battle takes place. (Achievable)
    Specific changes to air units in tww
    For air superiority regular fighters should have the highest rolls(Achievable) followed by navy planes at sea(Achievable) or land and the air strength of both tactical and strategic in the game manual is fine.
    Currently the navy planes have a higher roll at sea verse the regular fighters and this is not right which is why we need below.
    Fighters should be able to go on carriers but their lower rolling dice sea performance against ships is correct.
    Sea planes should not get a bonus for fighting on land territory like coast and island. (Achievable)
    There should not be any terrain modifications to air until all air superiority is determined. (Achievable I think)
    Ideally strategic and tactical bombers should get a little higher roll attack roll at sea than it presently is. (Achievable)
    The fighter including navy planes should have a lower attack value (like no higher than artillery) against land units.
    A idea for tactical bombers would be that defender would have to pick other than infantry as casualty and to balance this maybe you could scale down the sky high attack value of a tactical bomber.
    Strategic raids for ground units. Bombers should get a one round only strife against ground units and no counter unless any AA units present or defending planes but the attack value must be a little lower than they are now due to bomber stacking and the fact that at high altitude bombing was not that accurate. Plus planes in adjacent territories should be able to scramble to this one as well as intercept. So this means fighters can escort.
    Mobile AA could be handled 1/2/2 but should also be allowed to defend against land from the get go regardless of improved AA as well as Non mobile AA .
    Strategic raid on the airfield and the planes on the tarmac. This means all defending in that territories have to intercept as they are being targeted too. Scrambling to this defense is not allowed However. AA fires first and then air superiority determined, defending strategic bombers don’t get to scramble as usual, however there must be an airfield in the territory. You can hit the airfield without bringing in a strategic bomber if you just want to take out the planes as well. You could have a radar scramble chance roll for these types of scenarios as well same with carriers. Also stat. bombers should be able to act as strategic bombers for trucks, material and rockets. So they both should be able to target rockets.
    Overrun air fields and when the dice battle gets down to just defending planes against incoming ground units with no attacking planes, the planes must retreat to nearest territory. Realistically ground units are not going to be hunting down planes.
    Ships should be able to bombard naval bases and I’m not sure how to do damage but the yards would have coastal artillery and torpedo bays for defense plus after naval base is gone could bombard factories or PU damage. (Achievable)
    Kamikaze planes would be for Japan only and only against sea units. Both fighters and bomber would be able to use their full range without any regard to landing and they do not get an automatic hit and must survive air battle. Kamikaze really only came into play after 1944 so you may not allow it at first. (Achievable)
    Planes should not have to face AA fire if they are just passing a territory as they would surly take a different route to avoid it. However, they would have to face any fighters in said passing territory in normal air combat. (Achievable)
    Retreating for defending sea and land unit(s)
    In the spirit of movement the retreating units can’t be moved on the next turn (unachievable) plus attacking units may pick how many units it wants to leave to occupy territory. (Unachievable) However 2 land rounds must be endured before retreating is allowed and some kind of penalty should apply for a fighting retreat like one of your counters not counting. (No idea what this means)
    Sea rounds should be 3 and of course this should be a game option to ask minimum amount of rounds endured. (Achievable) Also defenders cannot retreat to areas so sometimes escape may not be possible.
    Due to the vastness of sea zones, defending sea units can break off from the attack and still be in the same sea zone but not sure about that one. (Achievable maybe)
    Submerged versus surfaced submarines in attacking or defending situations
    This needs to be asked every round to determine which ships can sink the subs if any, and if you want to take sub casualties from the beginning of say a big mixed sea battle since surfaced subs can take hits from any ships. (Achievable maybe) not really sure
    Only destroyers and planes (with Ariel depth charges) can sink submerged submarines period. (Achievable)
    Defending submarines get 2 rounds to escape from regular destroyers, heavy destroyers 3. (Achievable)
    Planes do not need destroyer to be present to sink subs on defense since they are considered surfaced and recharging but they only get one round, unless they have depth charge tech and then 2 rounds and their chances should not be as good as if they were attacking a surface ship.
    Submerged subs cannot take hits from defending subs, transports, cruisers, carriers, and battleships so you better buys some destroyers. However they can only stay submerged for 2 rounds and then they must retreat or surface. (Achievable maybe)
    Transports can only hit surfaced submarines, aircraft and not only can they not be used as attacking fodder like in the players enforced rules but they must be picked last in defending sea battles. One exception, when it is only attacking submarines transports can be picked first in defending situations. (Achievable)
    Battleships and aircraft carrier damage should cost something to 1 PU to repair at naval yard. (Achievable I think)
    Game should start with all nations’ destroyers being able to stop and sink submarines plus amphibious assaults are allowed for non-marines and artillery. For amphibious tanks, you would need to buy special amphibious tank transport that could also hold artillery. However, these units should get lower than normal attack value for amphibious attacks but not lower than infantry. So you can get rid of the higher special tech in tww.
    Also defending submerged subs AA strike against destroyer should only be a 1 roll period plus subs can counter aircraft at 1 defense value but only if surfaced. Destroyers should have a higher roll against subs then other ships but do not know how you can do this. Could have a destroyer/submarine superiority first battle also but not sure if this would help.
    Get rid of advanced destroyers’ ability of enabling capital ship to be able attack submarines.
    So want to add improved sea tech which would include improved dive bomb and torpedo. Aerial depth charges would give planes 2 rounds to sinks subs and make their chances of sinking subs only better. Improved destroyer tech could stay but just better rolls as ability to stop subs game starts with.
    Britain starts with improved fighters but not the sea planes. (Achievable) Japan gets improved fighters and improved sea planes only. Italy and China do not getting any starting tech. U.S. gets production. Germany should get anti-tank and improved AA due to the 88 and improved submarine. Russia gets logistics.
    The improved submarine tech needs to be changed to just increase attacking ability and not much for defense.
    The defense terrain modifications should need to be a tad bit lower maybe by not having multiple terrain modifications and there is no way in hell a tanks gets a lower defense value than troops. (Achievable)
    Russian and German should be better than all other nations’ tanks so starting off there should be +1 difference in attack and defense but only to determine armor superiority. (Achievable maybe)
    Rockets could not be pin pointed to just hit factories etc. so they should only cause PU damage but the cost should be one less than the minimum damage they cause. There is no defense against V-2 (currently there is defense). However for V-1 rockets not only does the fighters get a one defense (currently game has) but the AA should too but only one AA gun should count (not in game). Germany must get rocket tech first before any other nation can.
    Help Costal artillery,
    I am not sure about all the details for this section but I think if defending coast has tanks and artillery they should get like a 1 AA against trannies with only costal artillery being able to hit other sea units.
    Coastal artillery would be one material plus one artillery unit to make and it would be 2 hit plus have high defense value. Maybe attacking bombardment should be able to pick defending unit hits? (Achievable)
    Could add Supplies and oil plus, costing 1 buck have to be transported and forward units could not can’t attack without one supply unit in that area and the same goes for navel units but both land and sea could defend without supplies. (Achievable)
    Sea supplies could be transported by transports or the ships themselves could carry them up to a certain amount. Only trucks and halftracks could haul ground supplies up to a certain amount. (Achievable maybe) Would end up being a significant amount of micro management
    1 infantry can board cruisers, carriers, and battleships but only for noncombat unloading and there cannot have been a sea battle that round.
    All games need patrol boats 1/1/2. (Achievable)
    All game should start with historic number of units per date, REGARDLESS OF BALANCE. (Achievable) Would recommend you set this up as a loadable Mod because the game would be severely unbalanced
    Convoy sea zones should be added like in global. (Achievable)
    There needs to be a 1 cost difference between armed and unarmed trannies and special tank trannies should be added. (Achievable)
    Mechanized can tow one art or AA but no infantry. Trucks should carry 1 infantry and tow one and maybe even tanks tow one because artillery and regular anti-tank must be towed to move from now on. (Achievable maybe)
    There should also be mobile antitank which would be great against armor but only average against other land units. (Achievable)
    Copenhagen and any straits should not dictate a sea lane but it would be a good example of defensive costal artillery if passing island. Plus the straights of Gibraltar would be another example however coastal artillery is really needed to determine this.
    Blocks are allowed but not from loading troops etc. Attacker can now pick how many ships he wants to use against the block and allow rest to go to another sea zone if wanted. The attacker must destroy the block for loading troops but should have at least one more unit then the block if just passing blocked sea zone. This could be done this with land as well?
    Destroyers should be able to bombard as well but all bombardment dice should be lower than how they score against sea targets.
    Hulls should be required for cruisers (Achievable)
    As well and air trannies can move 1 non paratroop guy as long as land at airport.
    Building material needs to be interchangeable


  • Admin

    Air Superiority (Achievable) and armor Superiority can be added to any game (Not sure how you intend to have Armor superiority, can only be achieved with AA attacks and defenses as far as I know) might have some serious effects on gameplay. Main reason for armor is so the anti-tank does not have such as high defense value against infantry and artillery unless they are mobile anti-tank. Just thought if you could have separate air battle you could have separate armor battle with winners going on the main battle,
    Attacking and defending hits from planes only count against each other and the same with the tanks, mech, and anti-tank until that particular column is out and any spill over hits apply to other units including ground strafes.

    Will get too complicated, imo

    The air battle goes first (Achievable), and then the armor battle (unachievable as far as I know), survivors of both ends up on the main land battle. You can still pick mechanized infantry and antitank instead of tanks.

    I would go for one or two rounds of air battle, the surviving units go to the main battle.

    There should also be air superiority at sea as well before the main sea battle takes place. (Achievable)
    Specific changes to air units in tww
    For air superiority regular fighters should have the highest rolls(Achievable) followed by navy planes at sea(Achievable) or land and the air strength of both tactical and strategic in the game manual is fine.
    Currently the navy planes have a higher roll at sea verse the regular fighters and this is not right which is why we need below.
    Fighters should be able to go on carriers but their lower rolling dice sea performance against ships is correct.

    Don't agree. Nobody would build naval fighters anymore, even if the "normal" fighters have less offensive power on the ocean. Most fighters needed heavy modification to be able to launch and land on an AC.

    Sea planes should not get a bonus for fighting on land territory like coast and island. (Achievable)
    There should not be any terrain modifications to air until all air superiority is determined. (Achievable I think)
    Ideally strategic and tactical bombers should get a little higher roll attack roll at sea than it presently is. (Achievable)
    I agree for tac bombers. Strat bombers sucked on naval missions, though.

    The fighter including navy planes should have a lower attack value (like no higher than artillery) against land units.

    Why? A strafing run by a fighter could be as devestating as an artillery hit.

    A idea for tactical bombers would be that defender would have to pick other than infantry as casualty and to balance this maybe you could scale down the sky high attack value of a tactical bomber.

    Could make a first strike against tanks/armored vehicles

    Strategic raids for ground units. Bombers should get a one round only strife against ground units and no counter unless any AA units present or defending planes but the attack value must be a little lower than they are now due to bomber stacking and the fact that at high altitude bombing was not that accurate. Plus planes in adjacent territories should be able to scramble to this one as well as intercept. So this means fighters can escort.
    Strat bombers are already highly ineffective in land attacks.
    Mobile AA could be handled 1/2/2 but should also be allowed to defend against land from the get go regardless of improved AA as well as Non mobile AA .
    Strategic raid on the airfield and the planes on the tarmac. This means all defending in that territories have to intercept as they are being targeted too. Scrambling to this defense is not allowed However. AA fires first and then air superiority determined, defending strategic bombers don’t get to scramble as usual, however there must be an airfield in the territory. You can hit the airfield without bringing in a strategic bomber if you just want to take out the planes as well. You could have a radar scramble chance roll for these types of scenarios as well same with carriers.

    You either attack the airfield or the planes. And why shouldn't ground units defend their planes?

    Overrun air fields and when the dice battle gets down to just defending planes against incoming ground units with no attacking planes, the planes must retreat to nearest territory. Realistically ground units are not going to be hunting down planes.
    Retreats are not (yet) possible for defenders.
    Ships should be able to bombard naval bases and I’m not sure how to do damage but the yards would have coastal artillery and torpedo bays for defense plus after naval base is gone could bombard factories or PU damage. (Achievable)

    No naval bases in the game. Not sure how coastal artillery and torpedo bays should work.

    Kamikaze planes would be for Japan only and only against sea units. Both fighters and bomber would be able to use their full range without any regard to landing and they do not get an automatic hit and must survive air battle. Kamikaze really only came into play after 1944 so you may not allow it at first. (Achievable)

    I don't like special rules for certain players.

    Planes should not have to face AA fire if they are just passing a territory as they would surly take a different route to avoid it. However, they would have to face any fighters in said passing territory in normal air combat. (Achievable)

    Not sure if that is available. And why should planes be able to avoid AAs but not fighters? Avoid the territory at all. Though I like fighters have an AA hit at overflying aircraft.

    Retreating for defending sea and land unit(s)

    Not possible (yet), though i would like it.

    In the spirit of movement the retreating units can’t be moved on the next turn (unachievable) plus attacking units may pick how many units it wants to leave to occupy territory. (Unachievable) However 2 land rounds must be endured before retreating is allowed and some kind of penalty should apply for a fighting retreat like one of your counters not counting. (No idea what this means)
    Sea rounds should be 3 and of course this should be a game option to ask minimum amount of rounds endured. (Achievable) Also defenders cannot retreat to areas so sometimes escape may not be possible.
    Due to the vastness of sea zones, defending sea units can break off from the attack and still be in the same sea zone but not sure about that one. (Achievable maybe)
    Submerged versus surfaced submarines in attacking or defending situations
    This needs to be asked every round to determine which ships can sink the subs if any, and if you want to take sub casualties from the beginning of say a big mixed sea battle since surfaced subs can take hits from any ships. (Achievable maybe) not really sure
    Only destroyers and planes (with Ariel depth charges) can sink submerged submarines period. (Achievable)
    Defending submarines get 2 rounds to escape from regular destroyers, heavy destroyers 3. (Achievable)
    Planes do not need destroyer to be present to sink subs on defense since they are considered surfaced and recharging but they only get one round, unless they have depth charge tech and then 2 rounds and their chances should not be as good as if they were attacking a surface ship.
    Submerged subs cannot take hits from defending subs, transports, cruisers, carriers, and battleships so you better buys some destroyers. However they can only stay submerged for 2 rounds and then they must retreat or surface. (Achievable maybe)
    Transports can only hit surfaced submarines, aircraft and not only can they not be used as attacking fodder like in the players enforced rules but they must be picked last in defending sea battles. One exception, when it is only attacking submarines transports can be picked first in defending situations. (Achievable)
    Battleships and aircraft carrier damage should cost something to 1 PU to repair at naval yard. (Achievable I think)
    Game should start with all nations’ destroyers being able to stop and sink submarines plus amphibious assaults are allowed for non-marines and artillery.

    Don't like it.
    For amphibious tanks, you would need to buy special amphibious tank transport that could also hold artillery. However, these units should get lower than normal attack value for amphibious attacks but not lower than infantry. So you can get rid of the higher special tech in tww.

    Also defending submerged subs AA strike against destroyer should only be a 1 roll period plus subs can counter aircraft at 1 defense value but only if surfaced. Destroyers should have a higher roll against subs then other ships but do not know how you can do this. Could have a destroyer/submarine superiority first battle also but not sure if this would help.

    Your sub rules are way too complicated.

    Get rid of advanced destroyers’ ability of enabling capital ship to be able attack submarines.
    So want to add improved sea tech which would include improved dive bomb and torpedo. Aerial depth charges would give planes 2 rounds to sinks subs and make their chances of sinking subs only better. Improved destroyer tech could stay but just better rolls as ability to stop subs game starts with.
    Britain starts with improved fighters but not the sea planes. (Achievable) Japan gets improved fighters and improved sea planes only. Italy and China do not getting any starting tech. U.S. gets production. Germany should get anti-tank and improved AA due to the 88 and improved submarine. Russia gets logistics.
    The improved submarine tech needs to be changed to just increase attacking ability and not much for defense.
    The defense terrain modifications should need to be a tad bit lower maybe by not having multiple terrain modifications and there is no way in hell a tanks gets a lower defense value than troops. (Achievable)

    Why not? A tank in mountains or in a jungle island isn't that that good at defense.

    Russian and German should be better than all other nations’ tanks so starting off there should be +1 difference in attack and defense but only to determine armor superiority. (Achievable maybe)
    Rockets could not be pin pointed to just hit factories etc. so they should only cause PU damage but the cost should be one less than the minimum damage they cause. There is no defense against V-2 (currently there is defense). However for V-1 rockets not only does the fighters get a one defense (currently game has) but the AA should too but only one AA gun should count (not in game). Germany must get rocket tech first before any other nation can.
    Help Costal artillery,
    I am not sure about all the details for this section but I think if defending coast has tanks and artillery they should get like a 1 AA against trannies with only costal artillery being able to hit other sea units.
    Coastal artillery would be one material plus one artillery unit to make and it would be 2 hit plus have high defense value. Maybe attacking bombardment should be able to pick defending unit hits? (Achievable)
    Could add Supplies and oil plus, costing 1 buck have to be transported and forward units could not can’t attack without one supply unit in that area and the same goes for navel units but both land and sea could defend without supplies. (Achievable)
    Sea supplies could be transported by transports or the ships themselves could carry them up to a certain amount. Only trucks and halftracks could haul ground supplies up to a certain amount. (Achievable maybe) Would end up being a significant amount of micro management
    1 infantry can board cruisers, carriers, and battleships but only for noncombat unloading and there cannot have been a sea battle that round.
    All games need patrol boats 1/1/2. (Achievable)
    All game should start with historic number of units per date, REGARDLESS OF BALANCE. (Achievable) Would recommend you set this up as a loadable Mod because the game would be severely unbalanced

    Nobody would play that.

    Convoy sea zones should be added like in global. (Achievable)
    There needs to be a 1 cost difference between armed and unarmed trannies and special tank trannies should be added. (Achievable)
    Mechanized can tow one art or AA but no infantry. Trucks should carry 1 infantry and tow one and maybe even tanks tow one because artillery and regular anti-tank must be towed to move from now on. (Achievable maybe)
    There should also be mobile antitank which would be great against armor but only average against other land units. (Achievable)

    Already there: called mobile art

    Copenhagen and any straits should not dictate a sea lane but it would be a good example of defensive costal artillery if passing island. Plus the straights of Gibraltar would be another example however coastal artillery is really needed to determine this.
    Blocks are allowed but not from loading troops etc. Attacker can now pick how many ships he wants to use against the block and allow rest to go to another sea zone if wanted. The attacker must destroy the block for loading troops but should have at least one more unit then the block if just passing blocked sea zone. This could be done this with land as well?

    Not sure what you mean.

    Destroyers should be able to bombard as well but all bombardment dice should be lower than how they score against sea targets.

    Destroyer bombard tech.

    Hulls should be required for cruisers (Achievable)

    Nobody would buy cruisers. They are already hardly built.

    As well and air trannies can move 1 non paratroop guy as long as land at airport.

    We had this (without the need for an airport). Was deemed to powerful.

    Building material needs to be interchangeable

    Yeah, we had that idea a long time ago. But you would need a trigger for every nation for every territory where you could change a material. Nobody is going to do this work!

    Overall, I don't think much if anything will be done to TWW anymore. I had a look at terrain modifiers and made it possible for tac bombers to land on AC with imp tac bombers and adv carriers (1tac + 1 ftr or 3 ftr) but i lost that xml.



  • @wirkey none of it is too complicated if you had a readable tww battleboard, now in other games they can already do air and armor superiority, its easy to do this, any attacking plane or tanks hits counts against a defender plane or tank picks and visa versa so you are not always picking men. The subs rules are explained better on edited way to play tww but I certainly stand behind my sub rules due to tons of research on uboats.net and the owner of that website certainly things u guys have the sub rules wrong in every game.


  • Admin

    @panzerman

    I didn't meant it was too complicated implementing it. I think it would get too complicated playing it. And the more complicated games get the less player you will attrack.

    About the subs: nobody so far has come with an idea how to combine historic accuracy, playability and balancing, the later two being by far more important than historic accuracy. If we go that path of historic accuracy Italy would have to have a huge submarine force.



  • The Global 40 HouseRules mod has an option for different sub play. It goes as follows:

    1. "SubsCanEvadeDestroyers_ChangerMustActivate" Destroyers no longer block Subs or the Sub's "First Strike" capability. They are now a A1 D1 M2 +1 w/NB C5 unit. They also have 1 preemptive "ASA" (Anti-Sub Attack) shot. When attacking a Sub, the Destroyer will fire a one time "ASA1" (hits at 1) shot. If successful the Sub is immediately destroyed and may not return fire. If the Sub survives, it may then submerge or take its normal "First Strike" shot. The Destroyer also has 1 preemptive "ASD" (Anti-Sub Defense) shot. Works the same as "ASA" only on defense. So when a sub attacks a Destroyer or any other unit that has "ASD" capability, it must first survive the "ASD" attack before conducting it's "First Strike" attack. Destroyer ASA/D shots will stack. Meaning if there is only 1 sub and multiple Destroyers, the sub will undergo as many ASA/D shots as there are Destroyers. Subs remain A2 D1 M2 +1 w/NB C6. Subs cannot be blocked by any Naval Vessel. Subs are now susceptible to attack from Fighters and Tac Bombers. When attacking naval units who have air units present (no Bombers), Subs will undergo counterfire from the air units regardless of the outcome of their "First Strike". All other rules regarding Subs are unchanged ( to clarify, when subs are on defense they may submerge before fighters attack ). Note When moving a sub through a contested SZ, you must move in one continuous movement. If you stop in the contested SZ you will be unable to pass through. In addition to it's normal unit stats, Tac Bombers now have ASA1 ASD1 each. As mentioned above, it now fires normally at subs without a Destroyer present.

    While not completely realistic , it does prevent DDs from blocking unlimited subs. Idk if it will prove to have a unstoppable weakness, such as a massive US sub spam, but if nothing else, until the engine is modified some more, it gives a different way to play with subs.


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