New Steampunk Advance Thread

[board 3659]

Germany [Not Finished; Editing it]

Overview
So Germany like all WWI games usually carries the Central Powers and it's not much different here (despite Austria needing to be supported from the get-go, Turkey can hold their ground). Germany's territory layout however has changed. While the European, and African Territories are not changed, its Pacific Territories had a few name changes and more importantly lost Kaiser-Wihelmland (which is the stronghold of Germany's Pacific colonies).

Germany's Pacific Theater is swapped out for an American Theater instead (A big
German/Austrian Force is in Mexico City).

So while Germany is still focusing on the European theater, it needs to focus significant effort on the Americas in order to achieve its goals there. Before we talk about that, it's crucial we talk about the units first.

Units Overview

Graf-Class Zepplin
The Graf Zepplin is Germany's main Air Unit that costs 14 PU's, has 5 atk/2 def/ 5 mov, can bomb on a D6, and has an air capacity of 2. This means there are 3 major uses for it

1. Offensive Attacks - The 5 atk is significant and can assist in most major pushes you want to do

[luhhlz]

@board-3659

It's a fun map, interesting units. but there are balance issues. And the AI does not play martians or pirates...just sits there.

Allies have a crushing advantage in income and TUV that only gets worse over time. Even if Germany takes the Russian capital, it doesn't make up for losing Austria.

US typically is boring to play early game in tripleA maps, nothing new there, but in this version that is taken to the extreme. Not fun.

Haven't played it a lot. Maybe there is some way to rush down France? But that seems unlikely

[board 3659]

@luhhlz Yeah this one does have a balance issue (wasn't tested by said person).

The AI does play Martians, but not Nemo pirates well. The Nemo Pirates not doing many causes
the Entente to have the advantage.

Germany can easily take St.Petersburg in turn 2-3 which IMO does make up for Austria being weak (Austria is basically trying to hold against the alliance which is too strong IMO in this game).

The US is the boring part I completely disagree. I always deal with a German invasion of the US so unless AI is not doing that which it always does, you can't really use the US to send support. I haven't tried rushing France but I think through Belgium is the way to go through IMO Turn 2 to 3 kills of Russia is better.

Also what AI are you using, Fast, Easy or Hard? Thanks for the critique though

[board 3659]

If I or someone to make a mod of this here are some things:

Germany

• Give them Dreadnoughts, probably 3 as well as at least 6 airplanes (IDK who thought giving Britain this much of a naval advantage was balanced; Dreadnoughts allow planes to be viable for Germany)

• Give more ships to Germany so its navy is able to defend against the British (previous point)

• Add 2-4 Deutschland Subs around the world. (This is because Germany's naval production is limited to only 2-3 areas that are constantly under threat so you never build them.)

• Make the normal zeppelin cheaper (IDK why it would be more expensive than the graf zeppelin class ones which heavily outclass it, ig 10 is probably fine)

France

• France can't make Maginot unit (Was too overpowered for a country with an above-average economy, made France basically not be under any major pressure until late in the game, meaning they are likely the ones who will be making the offensive push first, plus the 7 maginots in Alsace-Loraine made Germany not be able to effectively threaten the French unless they go around, limit that stack to 3-4.)

• Maybe make France conscripts units not need a factory but cost 3, alternatively make them not be able to cross France or limit where they can be placed (France's production allows them to be able to abuse conscripts unlike russia and buy them with no real consequences since they can, later on, buy heavy artillery or Roburs).

Italy

• Make the Hitman unit be a 4/0 and limit production to North Italy (Were too spamable and due to Austrias low unit amount made it nearly impossible to defend against this)

• Make Militia be limited to only the Balkans (Same issue as conscripts but worse since they were a 2 cost infantry but with 1 less defense, the main issue is that you can build them in Rome so you can make stacks of them which saves money allowing you to buy more expensive units as compensation for the lower defense)

• Make pontoons bridges cost 9 and be a 0/3 (They can be used to protect sea zones very cheaply at 7 pu compared with 12 pu's for a battle cruiser and 14 pu's 2 transports making 28 in total, sure it's stationary but the lack of production cancels that out and even if it didn't it would still be the sea version of the Maginot for all intents and purposes. It makes it very hard to push back the Alliance once they gained momentum in the Pacific since they can place these to defend their island's sea zones, which essentially prevents the Nemo Pirates from being able to take them back without huge cost either in the battle or in the counter-attack).

Austria-Hungary

• Give them more units (Seriously this is sad, why do they start out with so little)

• Start them out with a leviathan and let them be able to make Stormtruppen (Austria has the least diverse amount of unique units)

• Let them have the dreadnought and start with 1 maybe 2 plus increase Austrian navy (Why is it so small? it was stronger or comparable to the italian one so this makes no sense)

Part II tomorow

[luhhlz]

@board-3659

I only use hard AI.

I think all the changes make sense! This would help tremendously as Allies are overtuned.

One comment - I'd like to keep the unique units, that's why you're playing this map in the first place! So don't disallow purchasing maginot, just up the cost.

[board 3659]

@luhhlz IDK since France can just spend money to halt the german advance and build fortifications. Maybe make them 10-12 IDK

[board 3659]

Part II

Nemo Pirates

• Make Nautilus submarines cost 15 Pu's (They are too expensive for what they are and should be comparable to a Dreadnought which cost 12 pu's with sub-rule (+5 pu's) but with no air transport (-2 pu's) and not with Battleships)

• Allow the Nemo Pirates to be able to get more technologies to give them a bigger incentive to research them (they barely were used since you barely have money) they also will get more stronger benefits

  • Submarine Warfare will give an extra hit to sea bases and more power (IDK why they aren't considered subs)

  • New units: Sea bases ss, Nautilus ss, Contessa, Hero, and Auto cars . Sea bases ss are 11 pu naval units that have submarine rules and are 3 atk and 2 def and have transport amount of 5. They can move 2 (only able to make after getting Industry). Nautilus ss are 21 pu units that have 5 atk and 6 def and transport of 4 and with sub. rules. They can move 4 spaces and are 2 hit. (only after getting Submarine Warfare). Contessa is a 14 pu land unit that is 2 atk and 4 def that moves 2 and supports 3 marines in Atk and Def (Only availabe after getting Working Women). Hero is your standard hero that every nation has but cost 6 (Only available after getting Victory bonds). Auto cars are 10 pu 2 atk 5 def unit that can move 2 and has transport cost of 2 (only availabe after getting Science).

• Add more objectives that Nemo pirates can get (Like Java, Singapore, Aleutain Islands and St.paul Island so they won't be restricted and would be encourage to spread out in different directions, so they now only need 7/13)

This took a while so Part III might be later ok

[RogerCooper]

Everyone should keep in mind that you have a favorite unit but aren't sure how to price it, you can price it low and buildcap it to prevent spamming.

[board 3659]

@rogercooper I didn't realize that, thanks for the suggestion but I basically tried estimating the best cost for the new units based on the abilities and how much value they have and the stats (some of the ones from Tokens are good but they need to be rolled for)

[board 3659]

This isn't that related to Steampunk advance but I wish there were a few maps that had Antarctica. I think the steampunk feel here could make it work though I think that might be something in the future and not my priority

[luhhlz]

@board-3659

Agree antartica only makes sense for steampunk. Machines stop working at Russian winter temperatures IRL, at antartica temperatures, forget it.

[RogerCooper]

@luhhlz said in New Steampunk Advance Thread:

@board-3659

Agree antartica only makes sense for steampunk. Machines stop working at Russian winter temperatures IRL, at antartica temperatures, forget it.

Check out this boardgame Antarctica.

Also check this sort of Antarctic map https://axisandallies.fandom.com/wiki/Small_Balanced_4_Player_Teams

[board 3659]

@luhhlz Makes it better than the comic "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" (an inspiration for this TL) has Captain Nemo going to Antarctica. His daughter also went to Antarctica and I think there were was stuff there

[board 3659]

@rogercooper Thanks

[board 3659]

Part III

Martians:

• Give them Technology (IDK why they don't, ig they had to be since Serbia in Domination 1914 had no tech but then why couldn't the OG modder or Swampy change? It's also very inaccurate with the book they are based on since they are shown to be able to adapt technologically)

  • Victory bonds: No change (there will be but for all powers)

  • Industry: No change

  • Science: No change

  • Working women (Probably will be changed to Human tolerance for the Martians): Infantry and trenches can be bought plus Aviatrix (I think this is possible since the manual says they are friendly with the communist and they don't attack them)

  • Propaganda: Probably allow them to place a Maginot anywhere instead of 3 infantry in capital

  • Late fighter: Make the fighter a 4/4 9 pu air unit or 2/4 6 pu air unit.

  • Bunkers: This will give Majinots a bombard shot of 2 or maybe make them 3 hit

  • Armor: No change but make Tank be replaced with Elite Tripod, 6/6 2 hit unit with 4 mov and can support 2 units in Atk and Def. Cost 20

  • Mobile Warfare: Martians can target select @ 2 or less

  • Mustard Gas: Gas is more potent and can stay there for 2 more turns (basically if you don't conquer a territory, that territory next turn will have to roll x amount of gas to see if they hit)

  • Creeping Barrage: Martians have artillery

  • Railway guns: No change

  • Submarine Warfare: Tripods can go to sea zones connected to the land and are 3 mov, 3/4 bomb. 3 with sub-rules.

  • Convoy and Defense: Pontoon and Bridges are small naval units (+2 def), Tripods are large naval units (+1)

  • Fleet Action: No change

  • Merchant Marine: Smaller naval units get +2 mov. and no restriction

  • Dockyards: Unlocks Advance bridges, Raft, Red Kelp, and Submerged weed.

    • Adv. Briges: 2/3, pu 8, mov 2, transport cost 8, bomb 2 (smaller)
    • Raft: 1/1, pu 2, move 1, transport 3 (coast only). Anti sub (smaller)
    • Red Kelp: 2/3, move null, pu 11, Anti-sub. At the end of the round, make 1 Red kelp in adjacent territory, (large)
    • Submerged weed: 2/5, move 2, pu, 13, anti sub, sub-rules. (large)

  • Carriers: No change

• Give Handling Mach. and Flying Mach. (former 2/4, move 2, pu 32, at the end of the turn, make one Tripod; later 3/5, move 6, transport 8, bombard 2, can raid 2d 1-12. pu 17) [wanted to be faithful to the source material and wanted to give maintains an air unit]
  *Make Pontoons block production or have +1 atk (This is because when someone produces a unit on the same sea zone, on the martian turn, the pontoon will be "attacking" but it has no attack so it dies which is unrealistic}

• Maybe add Damascus as another VC for them but add maybe 2 more tripods (This is because all VC of the Martians are in the Americas so they can neglet the Middle-east)

Part IV tomorow

[board 3659]

Who is interested in playtesting Steampunk Advance in the Lobby. Bot 703 if anyone is interested

[board 3659]

Imo the Tech system Domination 1914 has and this game essentially isn't my cup of tea. Domination does it better for a few reasons but I first need to mention why.

1. It gives the more economically strong countries. Usually, the bigger ones have more power

5 Pu's for a token is not cheap. Sure you can use it again each turn until it hits but larger powers (Germany, and Britain) can spend a lot more on them unlike weaker powers (Nemo pirates, Martians, Austria) who already have significantly less so 5 pu's is a lot for them. Even if they can afford them, the larger powers can just spend more to get a significantly higher chance of getting it. This ties into my second problem

2. Strategies start to revolve mainly on Tech or it's becoming required

This might be controversial but I am not saying tech can't be used when making a strategy. However, strategies shouldn't have to rely on them in order to work but often it's necessary. What I see is Germany or Turkey in Domination trying to get turn 1 Late fighter. If they fail in the first few rounds (1-4) then it's likely that they won't be able to control the British Navy. Another this time for Steampunk advance would be getting Armour due to the great number of units there. Now, this on its own isn't bad I mean there is a gain-and-lose factor though I wish it wasn't a necessary thing to do with some objectives as that kind of negates the gain-and-lose thing. The issue is when combine with point 3 it's terrible. speaking of point 3

3. It's too luck based
   The worst aspect is how luck-based it is. It's possible to use 6 tokens and miss on that turn (seen it happen before) not to mention the smaller countries who would realistically only buy 1-2 each turn if they can. You also only select from categories, You have no choice on which of those technologies from those categories you can get. This issue isn't that bad in Domination because there are 18 techs spread across 6 categories evenly. However Steampunk Advance has the same amount but with the old rules where it was 3, not 6 categories. This makes it more luck based as you can't even decide what you want (this makes #2 a lot worse as sometimes you are unable to do your strategy if you don't get the correct tech or get no rolls).

So this is why I dislike the system. Now I should mention that I don't play Low luck because I dislike it so maybe it works better with that.

Imo I would change the tech system to be more like Global War 1936/1914 in which you get tech rolls each turn based on the number of heavy factories (in this instance ig it would be based on Factories in territories of 3 Pu's). Next, you assign 1 dice on each tech you are rolling to get. You roll and are trying to get a value or greater (in GW it's 7, 8, or 9 but it can be different here). You need to do this 4 times for the tech so you can get it. Now I wouldn't remove the previous system since that works with Low Luck so I wonder if it's possible to have that as a map option but yeah these are thoughts I am writing out

[board 3659]

Who is interested in helping me playtest this game (basically check for what need to be fixed more). If so then comment below

[board 3659]

Part IV

Turkey

• Pretty much the most balanced country in the game. IDK if I should add more units in the south or not since it will mess with Martian's expansion there. Adding more unites or trenches in the Sinai would be the only real change I would make

Britain

• Decrease the Australian navy a bit or spread it out because it's often mandatory for the Nemo Pirates to attack it in Turn 1 because if not then it unites with the Singapore force. You can get diced early which just kills the Nemo Pirates so I want to decrease the chance of that. I can give France a bit more as compensation for allied power in the pacific.
• Tanks in Belgium make no sense tbh since if Britain is making them wouldn't they be in Britain at the start of the war? (also too hard for Germany to try to go around Alsace as a result)
• fewer units in the Suez or near it at the start since Turkey and the Martians really can't threaten it unlike Domination 1914 where it's a major chokepoint.

Russia

• Due to turns 2-3 German capture of St.Petersberg was too strong. I will make it have more defense (mainly trenches and a bit more infantry). Still will make that strategy viable but it will take longer and require the capture of Finland or a huge airborne stack in Lithuania to be able to have a shot.

Communist

• Fix the weird political situation of being technically allied with the Nemo pirates and Martians but just assisting the Central Powers (Either make it its own faction or make it just not be able to be in Central power territory)

US

• Not enough testing but seems mostly balanced though again Artillery should be more balanced since Snipers are especially more useful for the US which has a Mid income level.
• Guerillas should be able to be placed in every city in the US not just in Charlestown (too restrictive and usually you use it for Naval stuff early on or if you get pushed back a lot, either Infantry, Hero, or Airplanes)
• Zepplin for the US should be cheaper like Germany due to more advance airship technology present for their country (The Edison class aircraft outclasses it hard)

This is my current list of fixes so if anyone has suggestions or anything else than tell me below

[RogerCooper]

@board-3659 If you are finding tech too random, use events to grant tech instead of tech rolls. You can have the likelihood of a event increase each turn, so tech becomes a matter of when rather than if.

You can also use events in other useful ways. For example, the AI will not build the economic infrastructure of the Nemo Pirates because it sees no military benefit. You can use events to give them the units automatically.