💥 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread

[TheDog]

Building on Black Elks work, the next release will have two alternative skins, making a total of three reliefTile sets;

• terrain icon black line skin (listed as Original, this is the new default)
• no terrain icon white line skin (old default)
• terrain icon white line skin

.

.
Sadly the above only works in 2.5 (and not in 2.6)

Whilst moving around, for some reason it fails to find random unit icons

My fix is to save the game at the first opportunity, then reload it and it finds the icons

Is there a better way?

[Black_Elk]

Sounds good, here is the template with the graphics centered on the tiles.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtti3qvldzvk319/terrain_icons_48_centered_.png?dl=0

I think this will create a somewhat more pleasing visual, but means reworking the place a bit. I did it top of tile earlier just cause there were fewer units/graphics that way, but this gives a more even distribution.

Here's a relief showing the same add on top...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5km1a0kkpy2hn2e/1941_gcd_relief_draft_black_lines_icons_centered_5-9-23.png?dl=0

Current place.txt will have some stuff bunching into them, like bunkers or whatever the first place was, so I'd just shift that unit over when that happens.

You can preview it with unit view off just to see where they're landing. Looks like this...

Still needs some TLC. Gotta add back in the Beacons for the straits cause they clipped.
Ideally the PU would be nearby and the VC star, control flag etc, like in a A or Y shaped cluster probably. With the units tucked in around them. Having the inf or elite place into the terrain graphic I think looks kinda cool. Or units with a narrower profile, but mostly just was thinking to do it for the starting units so they won't clip into anything. Will probably take me a few days, I'd rock the earlier one if you want for now just to have something playable, till this one prime time heheh

[Black_Elk]

OK just about finished with the place. I'm sure we can keep improving on it, but just wanted to get some wheels going for that.

For the relief what I did was to open the ocean layer to show the base through in full. This should give the player the maximum amount of control over the ocean color/presentation. Effectively if you want to change that you can alter it on the base. Could add clouds or different effects that way as well if desired. Basically it's open ocean out there.

By doing this I was able to get the lines to hold down to 10% with no color changes or dance, which is quite nice I think.

Here's a quick screen at max zoom out

And then 50%

100%

so you can see it's pretty consistent with the line color there. Like it'll show black the whole way. Basically at 10% it'll shift slightly gray but pretty hard to notice, compared to the blue shift. Think it might be winner

[Black_Elk]

Ok I think this should be serviceable.

We can polish it up over the coming weeks, to clean up any tangents, but should show most the critical gameplay info on the first turn. I just did a quick wheel around the center for the unit place and tried to get the PUs somewhere they'd be easy to spot. For the overflows I just aimed to get it so those lines would be on different planes. Once we know what units are going to where I can fine tune a bit if there are starting unit adjustments, since there is some variability in unit size, and the tighter spots could probably noodle, but this just get us closer. I shifted a few of the sz centers just so the convoy flag wouldn't cross any lines. Hopefully does the trick for the new one.

Baseline:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ha5fdbpg7qcxqmz/baseline_map_1941_gcd.png?dl=0

Relief (black lines w/ icons centered):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sp12e9bu0d0usz1/relief_map_1941_gcd.png?dl=0

place:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ua86pcq7amgr8h/place.txt?dl=0

pu_place:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zas5jkz70blzxhp/pu_place.txt?dl=0

vc:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fdgksjrwqinjtox/vc.txt?dl=0

centers:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz30zmcesdwa6g2/centers.txt?dl=0

Let me know if that's alright. Catch you on the next one

[TheDog]

Latest version 85 ready for download from 1st page 1st post

Major Changes
Using Faster 2.6 Remember to move the error box bottom right, to stop it it reappearing (this is only a warning error please ignore it)

Note map skins only work in 2.5, they do not work in 2.6 (for 2.5 users there are a choice of map skins, see here)
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread/361?page=19

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• 2.6 works, took 100s of lines of WC Sumpton code to fix 2.6 crash & Tech completes on random turns lots of little tweaks to improve the game
• Lots of territories have +2pu added, added 500pu+ to the map, also increased the requirements for Industries to 5,7,9pu was 3,5,7
• Massive rebalancing required because of the above
• 350 Terrain Icons added, but removed 600 land territory ownership flags, hopefully looks clearer/cleaner for no loss of recognition
• Increased the number of HQ-Army to 5 was 3, as the map can now maintain/upkeep another 500 units
• Transport 1/12 AA to help the AI logic, moving A to B, B to A when threatened by Air
• China & Pacific-Allies have swapped places, USSR should control Pacific-Allies, USA should control China, allowing Japan 1st strike
• These nations can have Conscripts ANZAC, Britain, Germany, Japan if their homeland is invaded, max=30 as the AI over buys
• Removed Anti-Air unit as the AI does not buy it and most units have an Anti-Air attack
• Changed Anti-Tank stat 1/2/1 + support for 5pu, was 1/1/1 + support for 4pu (AI will buy new version)
• Inf-Elite now cost 7pu, was 5, but can buy unlimited, was max=9
• Bomber can Raid/bomb Base-Camp
• New Desert: Gujarat, Rajputana, Hailar, Cen.Mongolia, Siuyuyan, Jordan, Haditha and Kuwait
• New Marsh: Calcutta, Cambodia, Saigon, Broome, Netherlands
• New Forest: Darwin and Brisbane

WEST

• Removed Ottawa as a VC
• Kyiv gets a Industry-Lgt also helps Germany/USSR with rail links
• Crimea gets a Industry-Med and 7pu
• removed Philadelphia-Pennsylvania to New Brunswick
• added New York-New Jersey to New Brunswick

EAST

• Removed connection Corregidor-Mindoro Is. to Manila-Luzon
• Added Bangkok-Siam as a VC

TODO

• Balance

.
Link to 1st post that has the download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread

[Black_Elk]

I'm enjoying the new one quite a lot! Had a blast in 2.6, which felt much faster. Play scale is pretty entertaining, I'm sure the balance can be sorted with starting cash, but I had a good time. Being able to purchase more elites makes transports a lot more effective for the cost, which was fun. I could anticipate some balance adjustments to starting units on UK just to make sure a G2 sea lion can't be mounted too easily with a transport spam, or central Pacific to make sure the USA and Japan will tango, but overall I enjoy this dynamic much more. Sub interactions felt better to me as well, and the scrambling prompt in 2.6 is pretty helpful. I bought many more aircraft.

I like the new look sans control flags for everywhere, that cleaned up the place as well. There are a couple that probably shifted first position, so I might noodle that. I spotted a few things I need to correct for the place/relief, but it's mostly polish. Just a few bunkers to shift, a couple things in the overflows for spots that can stack to the ceiling. Like Benghazi overflow to the left instead of the right maybe, so it doesn't strike into Egypt, which is also a heavy stack spot. But that should be pretty easy. Starting unit balance felt fun. I think the extra starting cash from the increased PU values helps as an equalizer. The new turn order also seemed to kinda increase the sense a pace to me. Like I dig the way those Pacific turns sorta follow on each other at the end/start of the gameround. Pacific Allies gives a sorta preview of the mapboard over there on the Pacific but without a huge outsized impact. Then the Japan, USA, China sequences follows on pretty quickly at the close of the round, and back to Pacific Allies after, G so I feel like there's a bit more action there, or sense of quickness, which I liked a lot. Good call on that

HardAI plays pretty quickly for me. The first turn openers still can take a minute or so, but after that it seems to streamline and I didn't see many delays. I found myself having to pay attention cause I was used to taking a coffee break. But now the AI moves at steady clip. Great work!

[Black_Elk]

Here are some flags at 96px tall with the aspects preserved, just to have em somewhere. For the higher resolution. You can reduce these using No Halo, Lo Halo or Cubic interpolation. I use No halo, when making them very small res since that seems to show a bit cleaner. Or enhance > sharpen once there at the desired scale. But depends on the size and the colors. Anyhow, at 96px or downscaled from there, should look pretty clean for the Notes.

And some naval ensigns I did for AA50. These were convoy graphics. Just taken from the wiki with the modification to Germany for their period ensign. Probably not needed here, but again just to have em somewhere.

They're done at the same height as the above, with the aspect preserved. To unify the aspect you can always do a crop/morph and rearrange the elements in the image, like if you want all the banners at 1:2 or 3:5 or whatever, but these just show what was down for the period 1939-45. I only had the v3 ones for the big 6.

Here is a quick morph in case you want them all the same aspect for downscales. For some of these graphics it's better to just transform the image, but for the banners with circles it's better to crop or extend the canvas so you can preserve that shape. Anyway, same deal 96px tall, but here the width is the same. I did two sets, one at 3:5 (160px wide) and another at 4:6 (144px wide). Not sure which might be useful, but figured for the UI and scaling to the very tiny might be good to have em just in case.

3:5

4:6

[TheDog]

Its turn 14, Im playing Japan, the rest is AI controlled.

Turn 8, Pacific-Allies sent from Australia 11x Marines and 12 Light Tanks in 8 Transport to join in the US and Brits invasion of Italy.

This convoy skirted/kited my screen of subs and escaped through the Suez canal.

That is what a human player would do but the AI did it.
Kudos to @redrum

[Black_Elk]

Badass!

Here that reminds me. So I really enjoy the new dynamic where the Elites aren't capped, but I do worry that they might be a little overpowered in terms of the raw attack power vs overall versatility. Since the increased transport capacity is such a massive boost to versatility, I would suggest we might lower the attack value of these units to 1, to put them in line with other inf types (1 when by unaided artillery I mean, cause that's fairly familiar). I believe it's 2 on both attack and defense currently right, but I'd bring it down to 1 for the reg attack and only have the bonus apply during amphibious assaults or if accompanied by other units that do enhancements for others like Art or HQs.

In my last couple games (version 85) the Elites outclasses most other units at purchase for me, and outclassed the other ground units at the same price point at 7pus for sure. This comes primarily from the transport capacity bonus though, which makes Elites significantly better than any other unit at the same price if you have to cross the water. It really doesn't make sense, to buy anything but elites for transporting cause you can stack so many more per transport hehe. Plus they can go by air with air-transport too. Unlike m2 tank type units their movement from the factory rail isn't disrupted by terrain. So there's a whole lot of reasons to buy Elites, even at the increased cost of 7. The cost at 7 puts them in direct competition with Artillery and Armor-Lgt at purchase.

So I might consider increasing their cost above 7 PUs, reducing their normal attack from 2 to 1, or reducing their transport capacity from 5 to 3 (or just 1 extra over the normal 2 slots) as a way to nerf the unit a little. I'm not sure which would be best, but I think lowering the attack power probably, since that would differentiate them from the armor-lgt and artillery a bit more.

Compare 1 transport and 5 elites for 45 PUs vs
2 transports, 2 trained infantry and 2 artillery for 42 PUs

From a placement standpoint these forces are similar, both requiring 6 slots from factories Industry-Med or higher, but if those units are unloading during a combat move (pretty likely), then the elites are going to clap a lot harder during amphib, and you'll have that extra hitpoint too with the 5th slot. The elite can bonus on top of most other units while transporting too, meaning in most cases you can add an extra unit per transport provided 1 of those units is an elite. Which just makes the whole calculus really favor those guys over say stuff like tanks or artillery or inf motorized owing to their versatility to basically jump on board with anyone etc.

Then there's the issue of magnifying the elite build over a series of rounds. Cause with trained infantry and artillery, or infantry and tanks, it'd take 10 transports to move 20 hitpoints across the water. But if it's elites, you can transport 50 hitpoints with that same number of transports. Or conversely you can ship 10 hitpoints of elites, with just the 2 transports, which is pretty powerful. A huge jump up in transport effectiveness over Inf-trained spam. It means that once the player has built up a sufficient number of Elites, they'd need only a comparatively small number of transports to mount a very effective large scale amphibious invasion.

This was my main Seal Lion concern mentioned above, because typically it's the transport threshold that makes that challenging and harder to execute without telegraphing intentions. The benefit goes to both teams though, so I don't see it as a balance by sides issue, so much as an issue of attacker's ease of transport capacity vs defenders coastal production capacity to match what they're likely to face. Once USA arrives everything changes cause UK/USA can match Germany in hitpoints, but that's a few rounds to set up. I mean more for like a G2 pounce. So might want to keep an eye there.

On the one hand I do like that Elites make this sort of stuff possible now, which wasn't really the case when they had a cap, but again I worry they might just be a bit out of scale for the cost there, and sorta outclassing the other stuff in the roster. So that's why I'd say reducing attack power would be the best. Cause they're super fun in terms of the versatility. Like that alone makes them worth buying at 7. Even if they're not in the inf fodder role, for Pacific-Allies, Italy, Britain, Japan and USA they're so much more useful than Infantry-Trained via the transport that they kinda become the default ground hitpoint to buy at purchase. Even for Germany, or USSR who might have a harder time fielding mass transports, the unit makes a lot of sense, cause it can dive into the action in a big way with just a lone transport able to move 5, or an air-transport swooping 2 hitpoints. Very convenient. USSR is also incentivized to buy elites, since they only have access to Inf-conscripts and Inf-elites at purchase.

Anyhow, I like the unit a lot. I wouldn't want to change the core dynamic there, but I think attack power at 1 they'd still be very attractive and a sound purchase even the cost was increased probably. Like it's just that useful to be able to transport more hitpoints per turn heheh.

Anyhow, just some quick thoughts on that guy

Oh one other thought, for China, I'd probably return the fighter as a purchase option, or maybe a periodic bonus where they get one every couple rounds or something. In my game as Allies I lost them all pretty early on to aa fire and was wishing I had at least a couple since they're good deadzoning, but I like that China has the Elites now. I bought those primarily when I could. Maybe a cost at 8 PUs would make sense? Like 2 for 1 compared Inf-Trained, or just shy of 3 conscripts for nations that have access. Seems easy enought to remember. That might work, cause the early fighter is 7pus as well right? This would have Elites more in competition with cruisers and aircraft and med armor, also the base camp, which probably brings their cost/TUV more in line with their general usefulness. They're a very useful unit, I'd still buy them a 8.

I also find that the AI is playing faster and stronger in the game I have going as Axis. I don't know if it's the cleaned code or 2.6 or both, but it's really starting to hum for me. I dig it!

Nice work!

ps. yeah, to the below, I kinda agree. I'd buy em still at 9 too hehe. Allowing Elites to transport on Battleships (in the role of Marine) or something like that would be a cool trade off if their transport capacity on the regular transport is reduced. Here the cost of Cruisers is lower than the cost of Transport (8 vs 10), so that might be problematic if done with the cruiser here, but I could see it working for Battleships or HQs, since those units are more expensive than reg transports. I was going to mention transports earlier, but kept forgetting to bring it up. They are a lot more effective vs submarines, which I don't mind, but they might also be more expensive and I'd still buy them. I think that idea of allowing Elites to transport via the more powerful warships would be cool. Carriers and Fleet carriers are already pretty useful. Germany doesn't have access to the Battleship, but they do have HQs as a sort of early Super Sub. If those could carry 1 elite that'd make them pretty attractive. Anyhow, I like that solution! Nice call

pps. here's a quick example of a G1 opener for a G2 Sea Lion set up...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kve1di4k8nu8o95/2023-5-14-1941-Global-Command-Decision G2 Sea Lion set up.tsvg?dl=0

Not that it's a sure shot or anything, there might be a stronger set up, but basically if you can hold sz 112 for a G1 transport buy, you can put a lot of pressure on Britain immediately by massing elites. The computer won't manage the full press as well as a human, so I'm thinking more about just an insta kill vs the Machine hehe.

Bordeaux is another possible option for a transport build, if trying to split the the Allies across a couple attacks as a stall, though not really necessary. Probably there are a few different ways to split the air too, like if you want to trade a few pips vs the USSR, for a few more aircraft in a sz 112 defensive scramble since Britain has a lot of bombers. Britain could sack the RAF, but even then, once the Brits are on their heels and have lost initiative, that by itself might be worth the cost of the lost TUV. You don't have to actually execute the sea lion, just presenting a credible threat can be enough, since then it's Axis in the drivers seat, and Britain playing catch up hehe. Thinking more of PvP there.

If you forego one of the eastern frontline battles (ex Smolensk/Tula), you can get most of the rest of the Eastern Front fights at 100% odds to the attacker. Or just strafe one and return to Bryansk with a couple bunkers to hold the line. Here I left a a few tanks in Latgale to blitz either to Novgorod or Smolensk depending on the results. Sz 111A is a little dicey, but good chance to prevail in the air blitz. Sz 109 Brits can scramble, and nail the subs now too, so that'd be optional I guess. But if doing it, I'd bring the fighters to clips the RAFs wings a little maybe. Likely to kill the transport either way which would be the main goal. I sent a DD to block the subs in 110 here just to keep em off me. To me this seems pretty potent of G2 Sea Lion if Allies are sloppy, G3 Sea Lion if they aren't. And in either case the German player has the initiative, so they could always break back towards USSR instead.

For Purchase, you could go cautious and builder a cruiser or two to back up the transports, or just go max transport buy. Depends how the battles go and how many fighters remain. For that save I just folded some of the Non-Coms into the combat move so you could see the thinking, but you'd obviously want to see how the battles shook down before comiting to anything on G1 Non Com/Purchase. In a G3 set up, almost all of the German air can be returned from the East to face London, which would be pretty hard to counter I'd think. Germany could also do a G3 set up with mass air-transports, though this requires getting a bit closer, like Belgium or Netherlands instead of Hamburg, but G has some flexibility. USA can't reach London to support them on G2 defense. To do so in the 3rd round they have to set that up on their first turn, but even there it'd be an air support mostly, since getting there with transports is a two-round set up. Basically USA 3 is the earliest they can get in range for counter attack if Germany goes after England. So I'd say G1-G2 is where the critical balance would be on that one. Anyhow, just something to chew on.

You can see here how HardAI Britain responded. basically allowing Axis to start taking shots and trading TTs on UK's home turf from the second turn at the German player's discretion.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m4pisamgc3ejtll/2023-5-14-1941-Global-Command-Decision G2 Sea Lion set up J1.tsvg?dl=0

I'm having a lot of fun though. Feels like it's on right track, for sure!

[Jason Green-Lowe]

@black_elk Yup, great points. What makes marines "elite" isn't that you're able to pack them more densely into the same boat, but that a small division of marines is trained and equipped well enough to be able to assault and seize an island or a beachhead where a similarly-sized division of regular infantry would struggle to do so.

In Global Balanced Mod you see this represented by marines' ability to fit onto cruisers and battleships; the idea is that you are only talking about a few thousand extra people, so they don't even need a dedicated transport. But if you are just cramming the marines in five to a transport, then that's a little silly; at that point you're talking about a whole corps of marines (i.e., pretty much the entire American supply of marines for the whole globe), and they would need a regular transport, just like any infantry corps.

I think my instinct would be to just raise the price of elite infantry so that players are naturally incentivized to buy them only when they specifically need marines or air cavalry. Maybe $9 each? It's cool that they have a smaller transport 'footprint' than regular infantry because marines typically are deployed in smaller groups than regular infantry, but it's no fun if elitesare the only unit that anyone ever considers for overseas duties.

[TheDog]

Another option is to change the transport costs. Not thinking too much about it, maybe add +1 to the transport cost
eg
Inf-Elite 2
Inf-Trained 3
Tanks 4

Transport carry 7
Air-Transport carry 4 (although it looks like Tanks can be transported they will not have isAirTransportable, so cannot be)

Now only 3x Inf-Elite can be carried and not 5, so the PU costs can stay the same?

I know this breaks A&A transport costs, but they are getting in the way of the true PU costs.

[TheDog]

Latest version 90 ready for download from 1st page 1st post

Major Changes

• Less PU is available for all factions purchasing, as corrected end of turn PU calculation for Industry -9 -7 -5 was -7 -5 -3
• Transport costs increased by 1 eg Inf-Elite 2, other Infantry 3, rest 4+
• Sea Transport can carry 7, was 5 (now carry 3x Inf-Elite or 2 Inf-Trained) was 5x Inf-Elite
• Air-Transport can carry 4, was 2 (now carry 2x Inf-Elite or 1 Inf-Trained) no change
• Fixed Base-Camp now take 2 Raid damage
• All Fighter now cost 1pu less, the AI has more chance to buy, but is still reluctant
• Increased size of the Sea Zone flags

.
WEST

• Germany AI gets free V1 & V2 Rockets as the AI will not buy them
• Germany get Industry-Med in Minsk & Industry-Lgt in Vitebsk, to stop the AI building 5+ Base-Camp in the area and improve rail links
• removed Victoria to Vancouver-W.British Columbia (thanks Black Elk)
• USSR get its HQ-Army T3, was T4 & more units

.
EAST

• Japan AI gets free Kamikaze-Plane
• Japan gets a more Transport to account for transport cost increases
• Japan gets more units to the east of Philippines and less in mainland/China
• Japan gets Pelelui-Palau Is.
• USSR gets new Industry-Lgt in Amur & Omsk allows faster rail movement across USSR

.
TODO

• Balance

.
Link to 1st post that has the download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread

[wc_sumpton]

@TheDog, @Black_Elk

Question about "supportAttachment_Xxx". Should units be designed with support add to their "unitAttachment", or left to the "supportAttachment" to add the buff?

Artillery is an infantry unit with 1 attack and self-support added to make 2 attack and an additional 1 attack given to another infantry type unit. This self-support is built into the "unitAttachment".
Artillery is also giving an additional 1 defensive support to infantry type units but fails to include itself for that support.
Artillery at 2/3/1 and 1 offensive/defensive support to 1 infantry type unit.
Artillery at 1/2/1 and 1 offensive/defensive support to 2 infantry type units, including artillery, anti-tank and anti-air (if added back in)
Artillery at 2/2/1 and 1 offensive (no defensive) support to 1 infantry type unit.

This also includes HQ units, should they be designed with their buff added ("unitAttachment"), or allowed to self-buff ("supportAttachment")?

Confusing thoughts

Cheers...

[TheDog]

Question about "supportAttachment_Xxx". Should units be designed with support add to their "unitAttachment", or left to the "supportAttachment" to add the buff?

Is a good question, I had realized that currently the HQ gave a self-buff, so can be 5 to Atk/Def, which I feel is wrong, but what do you/others think? Im not that well read on WW2 tactics, so open to change.

[wc_sumpton]

@TheDog, @Black_Elk

I would say 'No' to self-buffing through "supportAttachment" and that units that give support are given those benefits through "unitAttachment". Thus;
HQ-Army (Armor-Med) 4/4/2 so that ground support is automatically added.
HQ-Air (Fighter) 2/2/4 with ground support and 4/4 with Dog Fight support.
Artillery 2/2/1 with offensive ground support only (defensive ground support should be removed from it "supportAttachment").
In A&A, Artillery is considered an offensive unit, so it's "special attack" (Precision) should be 2/1 when stacked with HQ-Army. Like wise, Anti-Tank (which had it's "special attack" (Anti-Tank) removed) and Anti-Air (unit removed), I think should be considered defensive units and had their attackAA increased by 1.
Lastly Inf-Conscripts 1/1/1 3pus receives all offensive bonuses that Inf-Trained does for 1pus less. I spam them too when I get the chance. So they should not receive these bonuses from Artillery, HQ-Army etc...

Cheers...

[Black_Elk]

I'll roll with the punches hehe. It took me a while to figure out how artillery worked here, and to realize when those hits were getting put up in the order of battle, since it's a bit different than A&A. The way they clap tends to feel a bit more like artillery to me than the vanilla versions (when the volley goes up with the big kaboom, which I enjoy), but again can be a bit confusing for a first out. I'd probably avoid the self boost, if only so it's a bit easier to parse what's happening.

Another thing not mentioned yet, but which I definitely noticed last game... So currently Bombers are very effective at screening vs surface warships, which I think would become their primary role if left as is. Not sure if this is desirable. I don't mind so much, since it mirrors the dark skies from A&A, but it's quite potent owing to their reach. Also cause the Brits and Americans can build quite a few in a single turn, and it's a bit asymmetrical in that way, since they're the only nations with access.

I think the effectiveness of Bombers in naval combat is because they cannot be targeted by most units, and only hit by aa fire, which allows them to cut enemy transports and DDs to ribbons from high altitude, once you've got a dozen or so grouped together. A couple rounds of dedicated Strat Bomber buys, and this is pretty tough to counter by Axis fleets, who also have to manage coastal production limits and a more limited naval roster than the Allies (least for Germany/Italy). Similarly, on defense, bombers can be very hard to eliminate, which also allows for somewhat gamey plays when they're parked somewhere on D to force a stalemate. I'd say in the current that Bombers are the best 'warship' that the Anglo Americans can buy, which can feel a bit oddball, but I can see players defaulting to that, like using them to mop up destroyers/transports/subs etc, then bombing once the enemy fleets are wiped. For the bombing itself, they're still kinda OP in my view, since wiping a factory off the board before the opponent can respond is quite powerful, and Allies get 2 ups at that in the turn order sequence. I've yet to see the computer replace a bombed out factory with a freebie, which might dampen the overall effect of bombing a bit, but haven't seen em use those. In the case of Germany, I think by the time Conscripts arrive it may be too late, since by then their factories are getting dropped faster than they can be replaced, so less production potential to spam the cheap hitpoints, and they'll probably be in the red on income from the lost cash due to maintenance and not having the factory bonus there. Currently Italy is pretty easy to smoke on the water, like right out the gate using the British starting bombers. Anyhow, just something to look into maybe.

For submarines I notice something similar with the targeting. To screen vs enemy subs I use subs of my own, which feels counter intuitive, but in conjunction with DDs they're quite effective. Since the Submarine unit is relatively cheap, attacks harder than the DD by itself, and is capable of taking the hit from a defending sub, unlike say a bomber (which I also use for in this role, though again only in conjunction with DDs AND Subs). Anyway, to my thinking, under the current it's better to attack a single sub with 1 DD and 1 Sub, than it is to do the same with 2 dds, since you get that extra pip. Though you have to be careful with the spacebar, since default casualty selection will take the hit on the DD first (less TUV), though you'd want the first hit on the Sub instead if doing that move, since the Destroyer is what holds the enemy on the surface and prevents them from diving.

[TheDog]

Testing Japan today the US Hard-AI used its 19 Bombers to wipe my invasion fleet, I even had 7 Fighter CAP, to add insult the Bombers sunk my 4 Fleet Carriers and some DDs, so my Fighters had no carrier to land on, then 5 remaining Bombers flew to a US island, to refuel.

So what to do ?

• Remove the Bombers 1 Attack
• Reduce the air attack rounds
• Block Bombers from targeting sea units
• or ...

[Black_Elk]

Since the unit is m8 any combat role is going to be a bit problematic. The vanilla unit in A&A is the most OP in the roster, since it's so versatile and so heavy hitting on attack for the cost.

I would consider removing the hitpoint entirely, and giving them an attack/defense value at 0 (effectively taking the unit out of combat) so that the only use for this type of bomber is SBR. But that only works if the AI is going to use them in that way - strictly for bombing. If it has a hitpoint, the attack/defense almost doesn't matter, cause the hitpoint by itself combined with the reach at m8 will make it too useful in combat, even purely as fodder, to ignore using them that way. With no hitpoint defending a TT would have them auto-destroyed on the ground, so they can't be abused as a way to funnel defensive HP across such a distance. Or you could treat them basically the way rockets are handled, like a single use purchase, very niche but even then, if they can be used to nix an enemy factory at a go, they'd still probably be worth the cost. It's a tough call, everything has knock on effects, any tweak to unit abilities or cost will tip the weight of the rest of the roster, but since the unit is being treated as a US/UK special here, I'd go nerf over buff for sure. If the unit can target ships and retains it's hitpoint then it comes down to a production spread issue, so for example Britain's12 bomber hitpoints per turn vs Germany's 8 naval hitpoints in sz 114. Or similarly the combined US/UK bomber strength vs Italy's 20 naval hp in sz 97b (assuming they could afford to just spam ships all day), but it's just a lot to overcome across that m8 distance. Axis don't have as many options for surface ships (G doesn't have a 2-hit unit on the water for example) so it tilts pretty hard Allied advantage if the Bomber is a combat unit.

That said, I did have fun using them as murder machines, and I do enjoy snaking an enemy factory out from under the AI, so there's that as well hahah. Strategic Bombing and getting those dudes in range was a big deal during the actual war, so I like that they have an outsized role thematically, but I think in the current they're a bit too hardcore. Another option would be to just raise the cost so they're more prohibitively expensive I suppose.

ps. actually I might try this, basically fashion the "bomber" as principally and exclusively a factory killer. I'd keep the cost the same, but make the bomber unit into a rocket in terms of how it works, so you don't have to tango with all the added complexity of making it a dual use unit. USA and Britain can afford to build them and have a couple semi-awkward factory spots like N. Ireland, Halifax, Vancouver etc that would make sense for placement for dropping bombs at m8 after one move out. USA has the same deal from Michigan or Texas. Since you need to mass them in order to have a good shot at the factory kill outright, there's a trade off there with a bit of a time delay and telegraphing intentions. Conceived that way, Axis Germany gets a similar unit with it's tech unlocks and Japan with Kamis, so there's a bit of parity in terms of the roster. Still allows the Allies a way to do the fun ruthless bombing stuff to clear a lane or shut down the rail movement bonus. I found that they also made the islands in the Pacific like Saipan and such feel more useful at m8, so they could still work like that. You'd need to get them in range first, but once they're used up just call it the high attrition rate maybe? I don't know how the AI would use them, but perhaps they could just bonus in a pair a turn or whatever, if you want the AI to use them to bomb consistently instead of running after the ships or getting involved in the ground war.

[wc_sumpton]

@TheDog, @Black_Elk

I spoke about the Bomber vs Industry problem before.
"isAAforCombatOnly"="false" cannot be used during regular combat
"isAAforBombingThisUnitOnly"="true" can only be used during SBR attacks
"maxAAattacks"="2" can only shoot at 2 attacking units
"maxRoundsAA" value="-1" does not matter, SBR only happens once at the beginning of the round.

What that is saying is that an Industry may only shoot at 2 units as long as 2 or more units attack. maxAAattacks should be "-1". maxRoundsAA is useless, once the second round of combat starts, SBR Bombers have already retreated.
"mayOverStackAA"="true" does not matter since no other unit can counter SBR attacks, and the best you can get during SBR is 1 dice for each attack bomber (maxAAattacks="-1")

Allow "Flak" to hit bombers. Every unit has "canNotTarget" set to all air units, but "Flak", AA fire from ground and navel units, can only hit fighter type units. "Flak" is done every combat round, and "Flak" can outnumber attacking air units.

Cheers...

[wc_sumpton]

@TheDog, @Black_Elk

Think aloud here. Types of support:
Ground Support: All unit have "canNotTarget" equal to all ari units, so any buff that effect normal attack/defense is call Ground Support.
Dog Fight: AA attacks between air units is call Dog Fight support.
Special Support (not given): Special AA attack, Artillery (Precision), Anti-Tank (Anti-Tank (removed)) and Anit-Air (removed) (Anti-Air). HQ-Army should be able to give Command/Morale support to these units as Special Support.
Flak Support (not given): attackAA (defensive) support given by Cruiser (HQ-Air as Cruiser) (attackAA should be raised to "2") and Anti-Air (removed).

The following units should receive no "supportAttachment" buffs, offensively, defensively or morale:
Air-Transport is the only 0/0 unit and should stay that way.
V-1, V-2 rockets their mission is to destroy enemy infostructure.
Nuclear-Bomber nuff said.
The following may receive defensive, defensive morale "supportAttachment", but not offensive, offensive morale buffs:
Carrier, Carrier-Fleet and Transport are transport units, but they can defend.
Bunker and Base-Camp both are considered manned infantry defensive units.
Inf-Conscript 1 attack power, it takes training to understand how to attack with different type of units (combined arms) which this unit lacks. Should be able to receive morale defensive support but not any other type of defensive "supportAttachment".
I am unsure how Kamikaze-Plane should be handled.
Both Battleship and Armor-Hvy are 4/4 units and should only receive morale offensive/defensive support.

Support given by HQ units should be considered Command/Morale support at 1:5.
Support given by individual units should be considered Offensive/Defensive Support at 1:1.

HQ-Air Should give Ground Support, Offensive/Defensive to all air units (except as noted above) at 1:5 and Dog Fight, Offensive/Defensive to all air units (except as noted above) at 1:5. Total units supported: 10.
HQ-Army Should give Ground Support, Offensive/Defensive to all land units (except as noted above) at 1:5 and Special Support, Offensive (Artillery) at 1:3, Defensive (Anti-Tank (special attack removed), Anti-Air (unit removed)) at 1:3. Total units supported: 8 (Special Support is divided between Offense/Defense and cannot be given together).
HQ-Fleet Should give Ground Support, Offensive/Defensive to all sea (including submarines) units (except as noted above) at 1:5 and Dog Fight, Offensive/Defensive to all air units (except as noted above) at 1:5. Total units supported: 10.
HQ-Submarine Should give Ground Support, Offensive/Defensive to all sea (including surface) units (except as noted above) at 1:5. Total units supported: 5.