💥 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
I assume you are talking about Anhwei?
If so, then you are are attacking a defended forest with Inf-Trained & Bunkers, they defend at 3
Most of your attacks are at 1
Even the Battle Calculator says dont do it.

.

.
You over committed your forces to take Hong Kong, your HQ-Army and more Infantry and Artillery should be fighting in Anhwei. The Chinese will counter attack so you need forces to defend for the following turn.

The forces that were in Shanghai should be used for attacking inland, that is taking Anhwei. Currently they are literally at sea, so for this turn not effective.

Remember Japan/China do not have the Blitzkrieg tactical advantage of Germany.
They do have Inf-Elite so make lots of sea borne attacks with support from Battleships & Cruisers.

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog Yes I know all that. I did NOT Ask you to tell me why it doesn’t work

I asked HOW WOULD YOU TAKE THAT TERRITORY!

This game is truly a great advancement in my opinion.

And because I love it so much I’m trying to make it more accessible to others by writing a manual, with examples, to overcome the many difficulties this game presents to players from it being often impossible to get any consistent intuitive understanding of how to play it.

It’s way better than the basic axis and allies game because it offers more depth, and more complexity due to it incorporating terrain features, unit type advantages, differences in movement (eg 3 tiles from a factory via rail), Superhero's (though I still don't understand them) and much more.

In basic AA one mostly tries to gain local advantages in terms of unit number. If you have more units that the other guy and can compensate for any counter attack, then you win. This is the difference between checkers and chess IMHO.

That’s the basic AA game. Very simple, or rather, very INTUITIVE. It's EASY to understand what to do. This game not much. Bomb or attack? How to overcome terrain? How to use Commanders? Most of the tactical details elude me and I am an experienced gamer.

This game is different and much better, but it also has a tone of bizarre stuff I need to understand in order to better document.

I still don’t have a clear answer from any of you guys why, when my armored column comes across a freaking single air unit, it then gets wiped out!!!

When I see land units hit a tile with only air, I EXPECT the land units to 1. Take the territory and 2. Wipe out the air units or at least force them to retreat.

Yet that does not happen. Instead the attackers often get wiped out (especially if the air unit is a nuke) and the territory NEVER changes hands that battle. I believe that is a bug. Please don't tell me that the air units are "in the air." For if that is the case then the game should give the territory to the invading ground forces.

So when it comes to this China territory I’m trying to make examples in the manual to help players get some intuition of what to do. I hope you realize how unintuitive many aspects of this game are to anyone new. And please explain what "attacks on 3" and "defends on 1" really means. I play so many games I keep forgetting this. I assume this means 1, 2, 3 on a six sided dice but I would encourage you to spell those things out since my goal here to is teach beginners.

Make sense? Can any of you help?

Similarly the bunker thing still eludes me. If there is a tile with some land units and a bunker WHAT SHOULD THE AIRPOWER DO? Should they always “bomb” or always “attack”. I still can’t figure that out.

Also are the super hero’s (commanders) 2 hit like battleships, or just 1 hit? I just played and all of them got killed with one hit. Yet earlier I thought these big round human face units conveyed some extra hits? I’d love to learn how these commanders are supposed to be used.

Thank you

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
As per the current manual & tool tips
HQ-Army give support up to 5 land units & 5 air units, so maximise with at least 5 land units and 5 air units. They are only 1 hit units. They can also 'transport' a slower unit.

As land units AA attack air units at 1/12 odds and most Air units attack ground units at 1/6 odds, air units will tend to win against ground units one for one. But usually there is a bunch of ground units v air units, so as the odds are very low the results are very random. Remember conscripts & Bunkers have no AA.

If you want a binary answer for Bunkers its Bomb them.

For Bunkers, here is page 12 of the current manual, how to take Bunkers.

[JohnnyCat]

Another example of NOT MAKING INTUITIVE SENSE.

4 inf attack some bombers that just landed on a bare island after they made an extreme decision to attack some sea units at max range and then land the only place they could, a bare rock.

IMHO This should not even be a dice roll.

Either the air units are wiped out 100% or they get a small chance to escape. And even if they escape is should be like 1 tile away and thus be susceptible to even more counter attacks. It makes no sense that they all of a sudden dominate this bare rock as super defenders.

I DO NOT EXPECT a 58% chance to win with what should be a 99% in real life.

You guys say you want to realism in this game, and I respect that, so I suggest we start by fixing these Land Unit vs. Sole Air Units issues that I see again and again and keep getting frustrated over.

Or do you guys see this some other way? Are these tac bombers something other than what the game play says? These planes were barely able to land on this empty island and did so only because they flew to their max range to attack a couple of undefended transports. That is a viable decision but, like any of these battles, should be liable to a severe counterattack if the opponent, as in this case, has the troops to counter.

Thank you again for all your input. And again please understand that I am reflecting what many people not familiar with this game, as you folks are, would likely feel.

I support you guys and your decisions and only want to help. But if you want others to enjoy this, then I feel (so it's just my opinion) putting a little bit more effort into this game to iron out the final kinks would help make the game accessible to the regular non-genius guy (yes I consider you all to be geniuses in this particular manner )

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog Wonderful response. THANK YOU.

I think I keep missing these subtleties - hence my wanting to take a cut at a new manual

For instance, you say, "Attack with 1-2 Art to suppress and at least 4 int-trained or Inf-Elite TO GET +1 Artillery Support"

I have a feeling that it is these types of features that I keep tripping over. Can you please tell me where it is best to look to see these bonuses spelled out?

I can envision myself adding more of these types of examples to the manual because clearly, and I mean SUPER CLEARLY, it is these bonuses (on offense or defense) that are making the difference here !!!

These little bonuses and better understanding the commanders and such, are what makes this game so special.

So I think I will focus my next days of efforts on first making a summary of these bonus and penalties to better understand and convey to others the foundation of this game's gameplay.

In addition to the suggestions you gave (check out the tool tips etc) Please let me know if you have any suggestions for me to put together a nice set of examples and concise summary of these various bonuses/penalties

Cheers

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog Now that I read your response again I see that I have all that I need. Thanks.

Like you said, "If you have Inf Conscripts use them in the attack to lead the attacks so they are casualties before your inf-trained."

These types of suggestions are invaluable so I will try to put this all together in a way that would allow a beginner to the game to quickly get a good intuitive feel for how that game play is suppose to work.

I also think I have been conditioned by other games in terms of my expectations and I will do what you said and just go through all the tool tips and that existing manual to see if I could better get to what I am trying to achieve.

Final question on this topic: Are there some oder of battle / loss order types of rules that I over looked?

Why is inf-conscripts losses first? Are they normally lost before int-trained? That would make sense but I just want to be sure.

[JohnnyCat]

UPDATES TO USER MANUAL:

1941_global_command_decision_manual.pdf

Is this the best most current user manual? I am today attempting to add things to it and immediately find myself wondering if I have the correct doc?

And since I think in terms of table-of-contents, if this IS the correct manual, does anyone object to me using it as a base for a new manual and adding a TABLE of CONTENTS?

I also get the impression that some of the tool tips are NOT included in the manual, though I could be mistaken... Either way, my goal is to add some more information (specifically the tool tips but there are other things) to the manual, add a table of contents, and add an entirely new EXAMPLES OF GAME PLAY section/chapter.

I also intend to make a concise version of this manual to augment what the tooltips currently do, because I personally found myself skipping or not noticing the tooltips and, in any case, I believe that having access to more information is not a bad thing as long as it does not get overwhelming. But that is why I feel adding to the manual and making a new concise manual will be effective and not overwhelm..

Any thoughts?

Thanks
Johnny

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
Are there some order of battle / loss order types of rules that I over looked?
Inf-Conscripts have a Purchase PU Cost/TUV of 3, being the lowest TUV in a fight they are selected to be removed first.

Are they normally lost before inf-trained?
Yes as per standard TripleA rules.

This Mon-Fri there will be another release so plan for that.

Signing off for the night.

[JohnnyCat]

It is fine

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
As you were not specific, I have spent time looking for the problem, is it Singapore? You cannot place reinforcements there?

If so undo all your placements and it will allow you to place in Singapore.

Im on Windows and have never seen this problem, has it happened before?

[TheDog]

@JohnnyCat
Re the manual, I would say the individually the tool tips contain the most information, as they are "online".

The manual does not contain all the tool tip info, but does present it in a different way. It does list all the Unit Supports which is not in the tool tips.

From a learning curve point of view, printing the UNIT SUPPORTS , currently page 11 is a must.

does anyone object to me using it as a base for a new manual
No, use it as a basis for a new one.

[wc_sumpton]

@johnnycat, @TheDog

Look like there is a disconnect between the history (Game/Show History) and the Action panel. This would suggest that this is a save error, as the reload is consistent in showing the problem.

Cheers...

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog OK AWESOME.

I hope to have some finished product for you guys this week!!!

THANKS AGAIN FOR SUCH GREAT SUPPORT.

[JohnnyCat]

CANNOT PLACE THE FINAL 11 UNITS

Please see the file and let me know what I am missing.

It appears that Japan cannot place the final 11 units. Am I missing something?

If you UNDO the placement you can see that the game is not allowing me to place units after the 28 I placed.

WHY CANNOT PLACE THE FINAL 11 units.tsvg

To clarify - I CAN place the final 11 units on Japan - but not on other places that I did not place to and should be open for placement. Unless I am missing something. THANKS

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
Replied here
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread/870

[JohnnyCat]

ATTACK PROHIBITION RULE CLARIFICATION

Could someone please tell me where to find the list of prohibited attack types??

What I mean is that tool tips will say things like, "Can't Target Some Units."

So does anyone have list of these?

If I understand correctly, and despite the AI doing it anyway, strategic bombers cannot target sea units... At least I think that is the case. So why is the AI doing it anyway? Or am I not correct? I don't have a saved game showing this but I recall seeing the AI do use bombers in a sea attack.

In any case, you can see that I need to know exactly what units can and cannot attack what other unit types.

THANK YOU.
Johnny

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog OKIDOKI. I don't fully understand this save error but I will just ignore this as I have seen this only one time.

[JohnnyCat]

FINAL GAME PLAY QUESTION FOR TODAY

In the attached two files, the first battle has the air power ATTACK Manila

And in the second , the Air BOMBS Manila.

I want to use this as a game play example but I don't see much difference in the odds.

So my questions are:

1. In this scenario is it best to use the air to BOMB, or ATTACK, or some mix?

2. Do you guys have a better example of how to best advise players on which way to dedicate the air power?

Thanks

[JohnnyCat]

@johnnycat Here is an actual gameplay image showing the AI using strategic bombers in a naval attack.

Yet I thought that such bombers cannot attack sea units... Or are American bombers different?

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
canNotTarget
It is a shame that TripleA hides what the unit canNotTarget.
Most units cannot target air units with their normal attacks, so a Armor-Med would normally attack at 3, this is prevented and the AA attack is 1/12
.
These are the canNotTarget values that are hidden, they come from the code/xml
canNotTarget All-Sea
Bomber (canNotTarget All-Sea units)

canNotTarget All-Infantry, but can target Motorized
HQ-Air
Fighter-Early
Fighter
Fighter-LongR
Fighter-Jet

canNotTarget All-Surface (but can target Submarines)
Convoy

canNotTarget Submarines
Nuclear-Bomber

The logic is the similar for these, but I have simplified it.
can only target surface ships
Kamikaze-Plane

can only target Industries & Base-Camp
V1-Rocket
V2-Rocket