Can aircrafts escort only if there are interceptors?
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Hello
(posting here because I use the feature in a custom map)
I understand only now that aircrafts cannot escort a bomber if there are no interceptors in the territory. Is this intended, or did I miss anything?
The (AA Global 1940) rules don't seem to say that:
Escort fighters (those accompanying the attacking bombers) can escort and protect the bombers, and they can originate from any territory or sea zone, range permitting. They can’t participate in any other battles during that turn, including a battle in the territory in which the bombing raid is occurring. This applies whether or not the defender commits any interceptors.
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@azimuth said in Can aircrafts escort only if there are interceptors?:
I understand only now that aircrafts cannot escort a bomber if there are no interceptors in the territory. Is this intended, or did I miss anything?
By the boardgame rules the attacker during combat move phase decides whether he sends fighters to escort the bombers performing the bombing raid. At this time the attacker cannot know whether the defender will send interceptors or not. As the defender decides about interceptors after all of the attacker's combat moves and before the conduct combat phase begins.
(Moved to Player Help as this is rather a rules question.)
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@panther Thank you for your answer. And no problems for having moved my post, but this is actually not a rules question. Sorry if i didn't express myself clearly.
Let me rephrase another way:
- when a unit with SBR capacity (let's say, a bomber) is moved during CM to a territory containing a unit that can be damaged (let's say, a factory), the engine prompts a question "Bomb/escort"
- The same message is prompted when adding a unit with escort capacity (let's say, a fighter), but only if there is a unit with intercept capacity in the attacked territory. Otherwise, the fighters escorting the bombers are automatically sent to the regular battle (or create one if no other units).
I was wondering if this was intended or not, because I find it weird (it also means that canEscort alone is useless) and not coherent with the AA rules this mechanic is supposed to be inspired by.
Escort are also supposed to protect against Air Defense units, right?
Thanks
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@azimuth said in Can aircrafts escort only if there are interceptors?:
I see what you are after, now. Thank you for rewording your issue.
Escort are also supposed to protect against Air Defense units, right?
No, by the boardgame rules "After the air battle is complete, or if there were no defending fighter interceptors, surviving fighter escorts are considered to have retreated. They don’t participate in the actual bombing raid, are not subject to antiaircraft fire, and will remain in the territory until the Noncombat Move phase."
So during combat move phase in case there are no (potentially) defending interceptors, TripleA automatically assumes that you send your fighter(s) to the land battle (as there is nothing to protect the bombers from). While (I agree) this is not 100% rules compliant it is an acceptable program solution, IMHO.
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@panther Oh OK, it's clear now.
On my map, AA guns are firing at escort fighters as well. But I guess this is because I don't use the built-in air defense.
So agree that it is an acceptable solution, taken from this angle.
I will just remove the option of escort/interceptors, too much hard coded to work well with my mechanics.
Thank you for your time.
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@Panther Sorry to insist, but I just realized the source of my confusion. Reading the AA50 FAQ and Errata:
After antiaircraft fire is resolved against the attacking air units, if there are any defending fighters an air battle occurs between the attacking and defending air units.
Were there any later amendments to this additional rule, or do I understand correctly that sending escort fighters to protect a bomber against AA guns is actually allowed by AA50 rules?
I just tested it with the TripleA World War II v3 and this "strategy" cannot be used in the game.
Definitely not a big deal (I don't even think that anybody is still playing this game), but something worth the mention in this post - if my understanding is correct.
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@azimuth said in Can aircrafts escort only if there are interceptors?:
... or do I understand correctly that sending escort fighters to protect a bomber against AA guns is actually allowed by AA50 rules?
No, sorry. As the rules here say: "... if there is a mix of fighters and bombers, you must assign specific dice rolls to specific aircraft by indicating which aircraft is being rolled for and rolling the die. A roll of 1 destroys the specified aircraft."
So escorts don't protect bombers from AA-guns in AA50, either.
Maybe the source of your confusion is based on how AA-fire of AA-guns in 1940-Global regular land battles is resolved. In that case the defender chooses which air unit he wants to remove for an AA-gun hit. Here, the defender can choose to lose "cheaper" air units.
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@panther Thank you!
Well, as for the complex interactions with transports and submarines, I realize I am modding rules I don't fully master
Apologies for my stupid questions then.
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@azimuth No reason to apologize. It's always a good idea to ask rather than to go with incorrect assumptions.
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@azimuth If I understand what you want, try to give those aeroplanes the ability to raid (SBR) with no ability to do any damage. That way, you should be able to bring them as fodder if the type of AA fire would allow it. However, I've not tested it: up to you.
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@cernel Thank you, this is very smart
I tried and it is working by setting isStrategicBomber=true and bombingBonus=-6 to the fighter's attachement (bombingMaxDieSides=0 dosen't work, no clue why).
But then there are some weaknesses: the "bomb/escort" prompts when the fighter is alone (logic), it is still rolling a die (which means that if you send a bomber with 3 fighters, you roll 4 dies with only one that matters - a bit misleading).
So I think that now that I understood that excorts never have been thought to be used as protection against Air defense... I will stick to this principle as well.
