Mega New Elk WIP
-
@black_elk Where is the mod available for download? I want to verify the territory names.
-
On the GIT beelee put one up here so I could grab it more easily.
https://github.com/beelee1/mega_new_elkThen was using that last xml that wc provided with it
-
@black_elk You have many territories with redundant names like "Philadelphia-Pennsylvania". These should be changed to the name of the region alone. I could supply a list if you like.
Some other problems are:
- Juteland should be Jutland
- The geography of the Carpathian basin is distorted.I would suggest
Cen.Romania -> S.Romania
Wallachia -> S.Transylvania
Transylvania -> N.Transylvania - Southern Africa has wrong names. The Cape of Good Hope is inside the city of Capetown.
Cape of Good Hope -> Cape Colony
Natal -> Transvaal
Praetoria -> Rhodesia - Northwester Iran
Lorestan -> Hamadan
Kurdistan -> Tabriz - Korea and Chosen are the same thing.
N.Korea-Chosen -> N.Korea
S.Korea-Chosen -> S. Korea - Corregidor is on Luzon
Corregidor-Mindoro Is. -> Mindoro Is. - Tokyo
The city of Tokyo is not showing up in the Tokyo territory
-
@Black_Elk, @beelee
And with thanks to @RogerCooperMNE WIP version 1.35.1 and '40 version 1.35.7
centers, place, name_place, pu_place and polygons have been updated with @RogerCooper naming and hopefully Tokyo has been repositioned.Cheers...
-
@rogercooper Thanks Roger! Good eye and good suggestions
You can probably tell that in the process of porting the Domination map to PoP 1914, Hepps made several tweaks, sometimes adding in a larger tile for some Metro area by telescoping it, other times bending some contours to say add an impassible geographical feature, or some way to split the tiles into choke points. Sometimes here you will have a redundant label, and in most cases this was me trying to get a name onto an existing tile, with two options sometimes to choose from, so as not to completely rework the projection from that point. Although I did ultimately end up having to make many adjustments along the way, removing certain terrain features like mountains for example.
In general I would say that naming by Province/Region/State etc is more reliable than labelling by Metro, since States are larger than cities, so for for example the whole State of Pennsylvania makes sense for that contour shape provided, whereas some other spot might be more suited for the metro. Or if it appears that two regions were joined together into a single tile, sometimes I'd put two states. Often times I would just add a city name, with the idea that it might be somewhere as a decorative label, though not necessarily the name of a given tile in-game. Sometimes as in the case of Chosen, if there was a double name option this may have been a solution for trying to deal with multiple time periods or Japanese renaming.
My first iteration was trying to cover an early colonial period like 1600s all the way to something in the 1950s, and that is essentially an impossibility in terms of consistent labels hehe. I believe I had something like Hanguk-S. Chosen but then that got changed to just S. Korea or whatever somewhere along the way. Issues like that, as the map morphed from a sort of colonial era thing to a more modern era thing. Or similarly like where the need to have the Dutch in South Africa for some sort of Boer conflict became less relevant to the map. Pretty sure I had originally put E. Cape Colony, as opposed to Cape of Good Hope, which made somewhat more sense for the larger zone at that time. All issues arising from trying to use different periods basically, and tiles that became a little larger with some distortions, or where we figuratively 'moved mountains' to get back to something that seemed sensible. Some solutions were less than ideal, though I think most problems can be solved with the whole 'what's in a name' approach, where we just choose a label based on the tile that currently exists, rather than reshaping the contours to match labels which may have been arbitrary or inaccurate.
I think in general I'd prefer to find labelling solutions rather than map redrawing solutions, as the later takes significantly longer and requires me to make adjustments to the relief which requires a fair bit of energy once a spot is in place for the base.
I think the Tokyo center was moved by accident when trying to move some of the PU displays the other week, and probably in a few spots where a label or PU seemed to have drifted a few pixels. Hopefully at any rate, fingers crossed.
-
Do you have an opinion on Kosice-Munkacs ?
These are the names from GCD but the Dog doesn't have them place as the default. Elk said they go "city-state" in their naming, so I have been deferring to the "state" (wow that sounds bad lol) for names I don't recognize.
Anyway, I'm shortening the names as I move the PU place and adjust place so they're not on top of names.
I'm gonna update both New Elk and 1940 until I get through eastern Euro. Then just do 40.
39 can be updated when a final name thingy is done.Updating multiple xmls at the same time is not ideal imo but that's how we're gonna roll for now.
I will post a update to git after I do any signifigant changes. I will try to do them after wc has gone to bed, so we don't need to redo our work too much.
There is probably a better way to do it, but every name change requires a xml change and every xml change then makes the previous xml obsolete.
As this is a wip, some names will be changed in the future. I'm working on shortening names if needed and adjusting placement for where the PU total and name show up.
Just a heads up on the process.
Edit
I'm going with Kocice for now. It's a little shorter and Munkass seems like a stupid name to me. I'm sure the locals would argue otherwise.Anyway it's next on the map so Kocice for now. Any big name change charachter wise will mess up place so ... just something to keep in mind.
Most of Euro done, rest of map isn't.
Edit 2
I changed my mind and am going with munkass -
@beelee said in Mega New Elk WIP:
I will try to do them after wc has gone to bed
It's the weekend! Wife said I can stay up all night! (Not...)
Bedtime is in about an hour. Party
on!Cheers...zzzz
-
heh heh just finished lunch
-
Yea, Idk the best way to do this, but name changes derail everything. Ideally, the names would all be done and then finish everything up, but that's not the case.
Well, I'm just gonna continue on and sadly we'll lose some work. I think a list of proposed names such as Roger did is fine but when they hardwire into the xml, none of the other stuff will work .
So, I'd hold off on any future name changes for now.
-
@beelee said in Mega New Elk WIP:
I think a list of proposed names such as Roger did is fine but when they hardwire into the xml, none of the other stuff will work .
I really did not understand this. Name changes seem to be an ongoing process. Any help should be welcome. Myself, because l mainly work on the XML, rarely view the whole process. So, this has been very educational for me!
Cheers...
-
yea, so when names change, as you know, you have to update the xml, name_place, polygons, centers, pu_place and place or the game won't fire.
So, when I do any work, the game won't fire unless it's all the same. If we don't change names, the xml will still fire and game starts.
Idk the best way to do this, as I've said before
but I take your latest xml and work off it and then update what I did.Obviously there is a better way but ...
-
I think it's best just to make a branch or fork or w/e it's called at the git repo, do your changes, then make a PR and merge it and then delete branch anytime you do an update.
So it would be a branch. Anyway, I think when the PR get's merged, it'll just add the new stuff from that branch, so if other stuff had already changed, it won't affect it.
I am not entirely sure about that though. I guess we can test as we learn together
I will post how i do it on the next one
-
hehe I think this last bit encapsulates very well some of the dilemmas we've faced along the way at various points/hand offs of the baton. Sometimes the readiest solution was something like 'Well this is working, lets go' and I think because labelling is particularly laborious and somewhat intractable, perhaps not the most thrilling aspect of scenario design, so I think the idea was to use what was sorta in place. Any snafus surely on me, just from banging out that initial key and not exactly double checking it for all the particulars. I have difficulty viewing the scenario from the perspective of the xml and the many txt files, coordinates and code. Though I do appreciate that in xml can hopefully be elegant and clean, in the same way that like a graphic design problem might have different solutions. For me tripleA is like inherently collaborative, in part from my attention deficit, and to just get it done, but also cause everyone brings their strengths and helping hands. Work flows tend to be the toughest, since most game development is done with that dance between the team and the individual, tripleA leans hard on the individual. For me the typography and text stuff is a real weakness. Like I'm incredibly error prone and often redundant - like where my Y axis invert brain is sorta everywhere, prob showing itself for all to see with labels hehe. I say go with whatever is easiest for the flow.
Hopefully though it's easier once that step is sorta locked down and everyone reasonably happy that it's sensible or at least not glaringly in error (again prob on me for that in early steps). I think what happens is that, as the map design visualization goes from more abstract to somewhat more realistic in the contours little thing anomalous things jump out more. In that sense I consider it a minor triumph that the map is recognizable enough that people can even recognize when stuff is off or I goofed something. Taking minor wins where I can haha
-
heh heh it's all wip. We'll get it sorted
-
I ran a few different tests to see which starting unit positions would have computer Japan reliably attacking the US fleet at Pearl on J1, while also taking Wake Is (as opposed to Midway or Hawaii etc.) By moving the current Japanese fleet off Marshall Islands from sz 32 B to sz 32 A. Then adding 2 submarines to sea zone 024, and a bomber on Marshall Is. With those starting units it becomes fairly scripted where computer Japan will just always make that attack, so sorta baked in there. Again because everything else Japan is doing on J1 vibes more 1941 the play pattern gives a sweep where Japan attacks into Philippines, Guam, Wake etc all on the same turn. This of course is a bit of an anachronism for a G1 that reflects 1940, but I think overall it gives a better push out of the first round. To me it's more important that the computer is positioning well, and hitting the right beats in subsequent rounds. G2 is effectively Barbarossa, which is a slight jump back in time, but again imagined like the first rounds of the game are playing catch up, "last week on...' with that sort of logic to it. Depending on the theater in focus
So essentially thinking about all this as if the Europe side of the gameboard is slightly earlier in time, the Pacific side of the board slightly later in time. The two theaters sorta sync up in round 2 and we're off to the races. A more 1941 era total war sweep from there, but which still featured the fall of France and some familiar stuff that would recall the G40. I think it works reasonably well, I mean for a scenario that doesn't require the whole DoW thing, since the computer will never really grasp that. This sort of approach just seemed an expedient way to get at a play pattern and play pace that still felt satisfying, while using simple rules.
Anyhow this was the edit save that had Japan making that sort of play while still doing what it was already doing.
2025-3-8-Mega-New-Elk-1940.tsvg
Quick image of the tweak
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eYMZAFgIgxyD_rAIZGoaMopR-YRXNWPJ/view?usp=sharing
-
@beelee I missed that one.
Kosice-Munkacs -> Ruthenia or Bukovina -
Thank you.
@beelee said in Mega New Elk WIP:
yea, so when names change, as you know, you have to update the xml, name_place, polygons, centers, pu_place and place or the game won't fire.
Yes, I understand this. This is an easy process, as I can open all 5 txt files, plus both working copies of the xml. Do a quick search and replace in all files. Wrap up all 7 files into a zip, since all are text files the size is manageable. All 7 files were in my last zip update. Again, these are just text files, I do not see the reason for requiring a complete GitHub update/download when it seems easier to me just to grab the zip and update. Again, the choice is yours. These updates can be posted to GitHub, and pushed.
@Black_Elk
I noticed that your last position update did not have @RogerCooper latest changes, so to use this xml you will have to replace all 5 txt file which are included in the zip.MNE WIP '40 version 1.35.8.zip
MNE WIP '40 version 1.35.8
- @RogerCooper name changes (again Thank You)
- @Black_Elk Last unit start positions
- Updated: mega_new_elk.xml
mega_new_elk_1940.xml
centers.txt
name_place.txt
place.txt
polygons.txt
pu_place.txt
As Always... Have Fun!
Cheers...
P.S Good Morning!
-
Faster than Daredevil! So cool hehe
Love it
Great work gang
-
Using that here's a quick simulation I ran while cooking breakfast, everyone hardAI. Seemed like a climactic moment so I tapped in as France for the save here in round 9 hehe
So far the computer push seems to be going pretty well. The emergent playpattern and pacing had that thing I was hoping for, with the Tunisia pocket keeping North Africa interesting and to counterbalance France a bit. I think to get a bit more pressure on Italy before France, just need to get the Greece situation figured. If Axis advance and that front opens might get the Allies into a better position to face off vs Sicily and Naples.
A minor in Sicily might work as a kind of bait, since that seemed to work with Normandy. Basically putting the focus more there than on Bordeaux, just for the D-Day vibes. Soviets and Japan skirmish a bit but it's mostly contained on the coast and along the Manchurian border early on, which I kind read like sphere of influence. Here though computer Japan started to advance in earnest, which looked a bit more classic style. Felt apt hehe. I figure that if it works well enough this way, then there's always the possibility of NAPs and such to option on, but I kinda like how it plays out more simplistically here. The Russian tanks and dudes that end up in China I suppose would be analogous to Red forces there, while the Purple is more like being backed up by the Western Allies. USA probably just needs that little bit of extra income from Brazil and such and they might also hop on Africa a bit sooner, but it runs at a pretty steady clip. I had fun watching it do it's thing while sipping the coffee
Pretty good there for something like a morning run hehe
2025-3-8-Mega-New-Elk-1940_France_9.tsvg
Quickie screen of the action... Paris was just liberated for computer France by their computer buds. Rejoice! It did the restore to French control when their capital was liberated (standard style), so the map lit up all blue again heheh. Will have to see if they can hold onto the cash
Round 8
Round 9
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hbm02AkW3u2skrk3W_K6lDjQbsnYEfL8/view?usp=sharing
I think for now prob makes to do a no_tech as the default option, since computer will definitely roll for it. Saw that a few times in the other game I ran, which confirmed the graphics seemed to be working. Since dropping those factories _disabled images into my units folder hadn't had any issues there. Names looking nicer which should be help for when the unit place is dialed. Great work!
Thanks again for all the help getting this up off the ground!
ps. Oh also for a name, I think we could probably call it by the UHD prefix, to suggest the connection there, and to locate the maps nearby when downloaded. Something like "UHD Domination 1940-45"? Works for me if that seems agreeable, since it's basically an upscale of my older Dom maps, and then the title would sorta suggest a similar scale or sweep there, or in case anyone wants to do mods on the skeleton.
-
For the Soviet Union...
I think Siberia at 2 PU with a minor factory and a pocket force, then Siberia serves as the fallback capital. Gives good coverage to both sides of the board so USSR can manage their backfield but still far enough from Japan's front line so it doesn't swing too hard. I shifted the Soviet Far East forces back one tile, so they wouldn't crash the party into Manchuria and Korea immediately. Vladivostok front is a bit tricky since anything there will just advance on USSR's first turn, if nothing is positioned opposite it on Japan's side. I thought we needed a little more of pressure cooker exchange there, perhaps with just a couple front line infantry in each zones to hold the other side in check. The idea being that they might skirmish, but then the lines sorta reset into a bit of a buffer along the coast with a large stack prob in Magadan to face what Japan is bringing to the party. Tried to lowball it for now, but felt about right for what Japan has facing them down already. Russia doesn't really buy much infantry for the far east so the stack has to be pretty large I would think, between 18 and 21 dudes or thereabouts just so Japan doesn't get a free pass up there before USA can put some heat on. Enough to hold the line and keep Japan honest for the early game at least.
2025-3-10-Mega-New-Elk-1940.tsvg
Anyhow, that's the set up I'm running right now to see how the computer uses the TUV and the extra mobility/resupply out of Siberia. Oh and then for Odesa prob raised to 2 PU as well, just since it has the minor factory there at the outset.
ps. hmmmm that adjustment actually just seemed to accelerate computer Japan's attacks lol. Probably gave them too many hitpoints there. The IJN is parked off LA. Might have to try a different approach, though I still think the Siberia factory makes sense. Currently the computer Soviet purchasing behavior is a bit curious though. They're buying a lot of heavy aircraft and only a handful of infantry per turn. Will have to see what can be done there.
Probably for the Soviet Far East just needs a couple subs to prowl and keep the Japanese transports at bay on J1. Americans pick up the slack, but take a few rounds to get up in position there to cross over from Alaska.
Here was the result after 5 rounds HardAI, I tapped in with France to grab the save. You can see the whole Soviet Japan back and forth thing going on. I think probably a Red October or two ready to hunt in the arctic will help prevent that from cracking off too soon. Meanwhile computer USA made a pretty nice press for Torch and sank the computer Kriegsmarine on the other side of the board hehe.
2025-3-10-Mega-New-Elk-1940_France_5.tsvg
I'll look it again tomorrow after I've had some sleep
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login