EXP G40 Game 2 Trout vs. JohnnyCat
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@johnnycat Game History
Round: 2 Purchase Units - Americans Americans buy 1 Heavy_BB, 2 NavyFighters, 2 carriers, 2 destroyers, 1 elite and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; Combat Move - Americans Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceAmericans: Americans has 6 Rails placed in Eastern United States Combat - Americans Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 111 Sea Zone Non Combat Move - Americans Trigger Wolfpack at111 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 111 Sea Zone Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRemoveAmericans: has removed 2 Rails owned by Americans in Western United States Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRemoveAmericans: has removed 4 Rails owned by Americans in Eastern United States 2 infantry moved from Brazil to 86 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 86 Sea Zone to 89 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 89 Sea Zone to Central America 1 Rail and 1 artillery moved from Eastern United States to Western United States 1 Rail and 1 elite moved from Eastern United States to Western United States 4 infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone 1 usa_fighter moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer, 2 infantry, 1 transport, 1 usa_fighter and 1 usa_tactical_bomber moved from 26 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland 1 Heavy_BB, 1 carrier, 4 infantry, 2 transports and 1 usa_fighter moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone 1 usa_fighter moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone 4 infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands Place Units - Americans 1 elite placed in Eastern United States 1 Heavy_BB, 2 carriers, 2 destroyers and 2 transports placed in 10 Sea Zone 2 NavyFighters placed in 10 Sea Zone Turn Complete - Americans Americans collect 52 PUs; end with 54 PUs Trigger Americans AdvancedProduction: Americans met a national objective for an additional 14 PUs; end with 68 PUs Trigger Americans Loses Philippines: Americans met a national objective for an additional -3 PUs; end with 65 PUs Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 75 PUs Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 80 PUs Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 85 PUs Purchase Units - Chinese Trigger Chinese Artillery Supplies: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Open Chinese buy 2 artilleries and 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; Combat Move - Chinese Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceChinese: Chinese has 2 Rails placed in Kansu 1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kweichow 1 fighter moved from Shensi to Kweichow Combat - Chinese Battle in Kweichow Chinese attack with 1 fighter and 1 infantry Japanese defend with 1 mech_infantry 1 fighter owned by the Chinese retreated Japanese win with 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3 Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 111 Sea Zone Non Combat Move - Chinese Trigger Wolfpack at111 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 111 Sea Zone Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRemoveChinese: has removed 2 Rails owned by Chinese in Kansu 1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Szechwan 1 fighter moved from Kweichow to Szechwan 13 infantry moved from Shensi to Szechwan Place Units - Chinese 2 artilleries and 3 infantry placed in Szechwan Turn Complete - Chinese Chinese collect 6 PUs; end with 7 PUs Objective Chinese 1 Burma Road: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 13 PUs Objective Advanced Production 1 Infantry: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 16 PUs Purchase Units - British Note to players British: It is Late 1940 and the British Army has Formed a Tank Army. They are Commanded by a Tank General. You may only have 1 Tank Army at any one time. Trigger UKTankGeneral: buyUK_TankGeneral added to productionBritish British repair damage of 4x airfield; Remaining resources: 52 PUs; 3 AirLendLease; 3 NavyLendLease; British buy 1 Fortification, 1 UndrgroundFctry, 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 6 infantry and 1 uk_fighter; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 3 AirLendLease; 3 NavyLendLease; Place Units - British Units in India being upgraded or consumed: 1 factory_major 1 UndrgroundFctry placed in India Combat Move - British Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceBritish: British has 2 Rails placed in Union of South Africa Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: British takes Norway from Germans EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 2 uk_fighters moved from United Kingdom to 113 Sea Zone EDIT: 1 uk_para moved from United Kingdom to Norway 1 uk_tactical_bomber moved from India to 38 Sea Zone 2 uk_fighters moved from India to 38 Sea Zone Combat - British Battle in 38 Sea Zone British attack with 2 uk_fighters and 1 uk_tactical_bomber Japanese defend with 1 transport British win with 2 uk_fighters and 1 uk_tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6 Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport Battle in 113 Sea Zone British attack with 2 uk_fighters Germans defend with 14 transports British win with 2 uk_fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 84 Casualties for Germans: 14 transports Trigger Remove All Wolfpack: has removed 1 Wolfpack owned by Germans in 111 Sea Zone Non Combat Move - British Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRemoveBritish: has removed 1 Rail owned by British in Belgian Congo Trigger RailMovementAutoPlaceRemoveBritish: has removed 1 Rail owned by British in Egypt 2 uk_fighters moved from 113 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone 1 Rail and 1 infantry moved from Union of South Africa to Belgian Congo 1 Rail and 1 uk_armour moved from Union of South Africa to Egypt 2 infantry moved from Persia to 80 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 81 Sea Zone to Egypt 1 battleship moved from 39 Sea Zone to 76 Sea Zone 1 cruiser moved from 76 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 76 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Persia to Northwest Persia British take Northwest Persia from Neutral_Allies 1 uk_tactical_bomber moved from 38 Sea Zone to India 2 uk_fighters moved from 38 Sea Zone to India Place Units - British Trigger Wolfpack at111 SeaZones: Germans has 1 Wolfpack placed in 111 Sea Zone 1 carrier and 1 destroyer placed in 110 Sea Zone 1 uk_fighter placed in United Kingdom 5 infantry placed in India 1 Fortification placed in Sumatra 1 infantry placed in Union of South Africa Turn Complete - British Trigger BritishParaBoost atNorway: British has 1 uk_paraBoost placed in Norway Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 3 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 41 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,5 British collect 47 PUs (3 lost to blockades); end with 48 PUs Trigger British AdvancedProduction: British met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 54 PUs Objective British 1 Original: British met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 59 PUsActually the Fuehrer will be furious with his General Staff who didn't tell him that Churchill could play an evil trick and sink his transports by building an aircraft carrier for them to land in. Not sure how the RAF can fly a mission and land on a carrier that wasn't around when they departed their airfields but as they say in Alabama & Mississippi "dem's the rules by golly". More than makes up for that debacle in the Mediterranean where Churchill lost a battle that was over 95% odds of winning which has allowed Italy to kick around his Tommies in the Med ever since. J is having a bunch of fun in East Asia I see. Hopefully the Chinese can get a bit of revenge before their inevitable demise comes along. Mafia up!
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@trout I don’t have a computer near me but if that wipes out those transports then I suggest we just start over. I studied this a million times and figured I beat you cause you didn’t plan for that hahaha
Dude I tried defending uk every way. Fleet. Mix of fleet and def troops.
Always Uk lose 95% of the time.
I had no idea the game has that mechanic. That seems broken to me. @beelee what the Big Bee think ?
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@johnnycat I'm with you on Sea Lion being very powerful. In truth, the only games I have beaten Beelee in have been with that. Yes, we can play again if you want. We can start fresh or after R1 if you want to change your J1. If you want to keep your J1, then I suggest we begin with me re-doing UK1. So I am okay with any of these choices:
- Go back to your J1 for a restart
- Go back to my USA/China/UK1 for a restart
- Start over from G1
- Start over with you being Allies
All are fine with me sir.
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@trout. Na I don’t want that. That’s getting into that weird territory I was trying to get you to go to do in “playing out” our previous game.
I suggest we make a policy of any broken games get dropped in their entirety. So no going back to turn-special-to-me cause it’s prob not special to you. Ok?
So I’ll just start another game.
This game is just null and void for many reasons including I got screwed (by my lack of knowledge) on not even knowing the USA could attack those peaceful nippon women on turn 1. You freaking MONSTER YOU !
And this nonesense about magical carriers is another thing I did not know and is stupid.
On top of that I get the feeling that you were unhappy with one of your turns. Sorry mate but I rarely look at your turns since I’m so overwhelmed as it is with this stuff.
You could probably edit in an entire SS panzer division (to the yanks) and I wouldn’t know.
So that brings me to a very important issue that I’m surprised took this long to address: I generally avoid wide-range luck games.
So when I play the ai I’ll set things to low luck.
I recall seeing that in the game options for play by email too but I don’t know if that info really gets conveyed to our widely-accepted-as-sucky marti dice server.
@beelee do you know if we can compress the luck range ?
I first heard about this topic from @beelee and @thedog and others when I first found this group last year.
They told me that they are so bored with playing the ai that they prefer the wide luck swings to “make the game more fun.” And I get that.
But no way I want that playing a person.
So can we get some sort of less luck thing going? I’m cool with things like +-10%. Maybe even 15 …
But having a 80% win turn into a complete loss even once seems not fun to me.
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@johnnycat Totally good with just starting over. Yeah it takes awhile to get familiar with the different rules for sure. For first two turns transports don’t fight back so got to be really careful with them. Some people do play “low luck” games where the variability of the dice is mitigated. I don’t like to play that way though. One reason is my teen-age son and me are planning on playing in the tournament some day so I need to learn how to plan for the dice when I play. I am a little pissy about how my UK1 combat turned out but it is true that generally the dice rolls don’t determine who wins in the games I play as they tend to even out over time
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The hardest lessons are the ones that make the biggest impression
That is a original Axis and Allies rule. It's not part of the mod. It's been around for two decades.
Dice are part of the game. Sometimes they go your way and sometimes they don't. Over the course of a game, especially a long one, they usually even out or a close approximation anyway.
LowLuck is just seeing who can do math problems better. There is zero appeal to me in that. It can be useful when designing a game or mod though and some people prefer it. I believe the "Total World War" guys use it and that game makes this one look like a Risk game
If I get bad dice, I look at it as a challenge. LowLuck the Japanese win Midway and hitler gets his ass kicked in 1940.
Those are my views on dice anyway
At any rate, learning from mistakes is part of learning the game. Panzer and Trout have both defeated me with the strategy you attempted. Trout twice. So it finally made me take the threat seriously and it required me to come up with a minimum defense of UK that most likely succeeds in defeating it. Unless I get bad dice
OOB also requires a minimum defense of UK. This most likely represents historical accuracy and gives the Axis a turn or two to continue to build up. If UK ignores it it's a gamble whether the Axis go Sealion or not.
Something different in this game is, it's game over if UK falls. Same with USSR. That is not the case in OOB.
The AirBase in W GER can scramble 3 Planes. It should be fully staffed ,usually, just for that reason as the Kriegsmarine starts out low on surface Ships.
Anyway, now you know
Fire it up and give it another go.And just keep reading the rules over and over again. Including OutOfBox. I read the rules at least once a day when modding the game for triplea, so got pretty good at it.
I keep two windows open to this day. One for Table of Contents and the other to scroll where that information is. And I still had to ask a lot of questions. So don't sweat it
Edit
The tier one players in the league at the other site and all the top players I've encountered all follow this strategy.Avoid extremely large battles unless you have to. Especially Naval battles as the TotalUnitValue is so high.
If the odds are in my favor, say 70% or above, I usually say F it and roll anyways. It depends on the situation though. Where do I retreat to ? Do I have reinforcements coming ? etc ... If I'm losing and need to gamble.
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@johnnycat said in EXP G40 Game 2 Trout vs. JohnnyCat:
But having a 80% win turn into a complete loss even once seems not fun to me.
Well this game might not be for you then as it does happen
You have 5 battles in one turn. All are 80 %. Odds are you're gonna lose one. But usually you win them all
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@beelee thanks sir. I agree with much of what you said. And I started seeing sea lion as a standard threat and this game proved it.
Regarding low luck and dice: the captain introduced me to some tournaments and I’m planning to go ASAP.
WHO ARE: the "Total World War" guys ??????
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These guys
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3915/tww-3-0-9-ntsh-ax-v-al-ubernaut-game-4?page=1If it makes you feel any beter 1 JPN Elite just killed 3 of my Aussie Ftrs at no loss to himself lol
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@beelee dice stuff is fine. All I meant really was that I want to “do better math” than my opponent (using your words)
chance is part of the game as much as the unpredictable human opponent. It’s all part of the game.
QUESTION: I’ve still not seen the map of this game since trout’s turn, but are you saying that the OOB game has that trick about sending out fighters an extra space if one purchases a carrier for them to land on??? If so that’s clearly broken right? Or is that just one of the tricks of the trade so to speak?
Are there things that these mods do to correct any OOB rules or is the climate one of accepting the OOB rules as firm unchangeable gospel?
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@trout good morning.
I’ll start a new game in a couple hours.
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yea so Ftrs landing on newly built CVs was introduced with the Anniversary 50 game I believe. Version 3 rules is what they are referred to.
Early games didn't use those rules. There are some threads kicking around here and the other site explaining in detail.
You probably have better luck searching the other site. Look for version 3 and version 2 here.
Edit
You can also try searching the Pact of Steel 2 xml which explains how the xml coding works. pact_of_steel_2.xml -
@beelee ok thanks.
If that is what it is, then I’ll adopt and use it.
That’s the point of these early games anyway: to learn the rules.
It “seemed” broken but that was only because I had no way of knowing that rule at the time. Now that I know it, it’s all fine.
Already started a new game.
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@beelee
DAMMIT. So rules like this are confusing. Bunkers are not fortifications ? Why isn’t everybody dropping these bunkers all over the place.br>10. Bunkers are defensive units that can also be bombed/rocketted, will not participate in battle if damaged, and will die if they reach 4 damage. They may be placed in any territory you owned at the beginning of the turn (just like Factories, Airfields, and Harbours) where you also have a land unit, but there is a limit of 1 per territory.
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heh heh well that is a House Rule from a different game
It's not part of this mod
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