TripleA Logo TripleA Forum
    • TripleA Website
    • Recent
    • Popular
    • Register
    • Login

    Flames and Steel (official thread)

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Maps & Mods
    286 Posts 8 Posters 670 Views 5 Watching
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • C
      Cernel Moderators Lobby Moderators @KurtGodel7
      last edited by

      @KurtGodel7 said:

      Sturmtruppen

      Those were a World War 1 thing. Surely, World War 2 German infantry was deeply inspired to them (to the extent you could argue that the normal World War 2 German infantryman was a Sturmtrupp man), but I'm not seeing much fitting calling Nazi German infantry elite as Sturmtruppen.

      However, I'm not sure what would be a good term for World War 2 Germany elite infantry in general. I guess the most obvious pick would be the Waffen-SS, but that is questionable (especially with respect to non-SS elite like the Großdeutschland) and it would be weird that you have Waffen-SS infantries but not all other kind of Waffen-SS units (motorized, mechanized and armoured).

      In general, I do not think that elite infantry fits very well in a World War 2 scenario, as they tended to be motorized, mechanized or armoured if they were elite in the first place. Like the Großdeutschland starting as infantry and becoming Panzergrenadier.

      Even if you do not have paratroopers (right?), I guess you can have the Fallschirmjäger as the name for the elite German infantry, as they are maybe the most obvious case of what an arguably purely elite infantry may be. The problem with that, however, is that they were very few in numbers in 1941. They became an actual main thing as an elite infantry of Germany late in the war.

      I guess you can use the anachronistic term Sturmtruppen in a World War 2 game to sum up all the different kind of elite infantries, but I do not think it is a good idea. The concept was really that in World War 2 all German infantry was supposed to be Sturmtruppen (and also the Italians had this idea regarding their arditi).

      V C 2 Replies Last reply
      Reply Quote 0
      • V
        Vendetta @Cernel
        last edited by

        @Cernel Sturmtruppen wasn't really a formal title anymore, but it does work as a functional role description.

        Waffen-SS would be a poor fit, some of their units were elite, some were definitely not.

        Fallschirmjager is paratrooper specific and the unit doesn't have any special abilities related to airborne attacks, so also a poor fit.

        Only alternative I can think of that might be fitting is Grenadier.

        C 1 Reply Last reply
        Reply Quote 1
        • C
          Cernel Moderators Lobby Moderators @Cernel
          last edited by

          Cernel said:

          Even if you do not have paratroopers (right?), I guess you can have the Fallschirmjäger as the name for the elite German infantry, as they are maybe the most obvious case of what an arguably purely elite infantry may be. The problem with that, however, is that they were very few in numbers in 1941. They became an actual main thing as an elite infantry of Germany late in the war.

          To be clear, not having paratroopers and having Fallschirmjäger as elite infantry would be perfectly fine starting in June 1941 because almost all of them would actually never fight as paratroopers (some major exceptions), so they were actually much more elite infantry than paratroopers.

          I'm not sure how many of them were even trained as paratroopers from 1942 onwards, so I'm going to ask Google AI right now "What was the percentage of Fallschirmjäger actually trained as paratroopers from 1942 to 1944?" The answer is

          There is no single, exact official percentage recorded for the entire Fallschirmjäger branch between 1942 and 1944, as jump-qualification rates varied drastically by division and year. However, historical records show a steep collapse from nearly 100% jump-qualified in early 1942 to under 10% in newly formed divisions by mid-1944.

          1 Reply Last reply
          Reply Quote 0
          • C
            Cernel Moderators Lobby Moderators @Vendetta
            last edited by

            @Vendetta said:

            Only alternative I can think of that might be fitting is Grenadier.

            I agree, but from late 1942 onwards every infantryman was formally a grenadier. That would work if Germany can only buy elite as its "cheapest" infantry (which would be fine if we want to picture the assumed basic German tactical superiority). A game starting in mid 1941 could have "grenadier" as the cheapest German infantry (but with cost and values of an elite infantry), meaning that Germany can only buy elite (called "grenadier") as infantry units, anticipating by a little more than 1 year the formal naming and picturing the German army as an all-elite infantry thing. That would be arguably fine, but it is a choice. It's disputable how much elite the basic German infantryman was with respect to others.

            V 1 Reply Last reply
            Reply Quote 0
            • V
              Vendetta @Cernel
              last edited by

              @Cernel Acceptable departures from reality, I think. Having Germany only able to buy elite infantry that are better than everyone else's is a far bigger violation of realism (as well as game balance) than playing a bit fast and loose with the unit names.

              Germany's average level of unit effectiveness was indeed higher than anyone else's, and if you were narrowing down a list of the most accomplished divisions in the entire war, the Germans would command a very outsized share of it, but still, the German army varied a lot in quality, just like everyone else's, and they raised their own share of mediocre to badly performing units too.

              C 1 Reply Last reply
              Reply Quote 0
              • C
                Cernel Moderators Lobby Moderators @Vendetta
                last edited by

                @Vendetta said:

                Having Germany only able to buy elite infantry that are better than everyone else's is a far bigger violation of realism (as well as game balance) than playing a bit fast and loose with the unit names.

                I tend to agree, but then we cannot use "grenadier" as name for a German elite infantry on the account that, from late 1942 onwards, that was the name for the basic infantry, and we are back on square one for what is a good name for a German infantry elite.

                At this point, maybe it is better just to call it "elite_infantry". I would suggest that over "sturmtruppen" at least.

                1 Reply Last reply
                Reply Quote 0

                Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.

                Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.

                With your input, this post could be even better 💗

                Register Login
                • 1
                • 2
                • 11
                • 12
                • 13
                • 14
                • 15
                • 15 / 15
                • First post
                  Last post
                Powered by NodeBB Forums