Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5
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@redrum said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
If defender chose at least 1 then air battle occurs for 1 round with attacker rolling dice for the 10 bombers air attack and defender rolling dice for 12 n.fighters air defense
So the Attackers\Defenders Fire is for the remainder. Given they can hit multiple locations, it seems Axis will be losing most of the Atlantic stuff.
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The biggest problem with tac bombers is they are only used on the front line where the airfields will gradually disappear from bombing and territory trading. After some time air units will be useless unless lots of PU is spent on mats, which effectively makes maintaining air force too expensive. Ditto for trains. It becomes a liability trying to permanently hold each and every territory to never lose the rails and airfields.
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@BlackFox The positioning of air is crucial. You may not be capable of saving every airfield.. but generally speaking you can save and maintain critical infrastructure. the idea of a war of attrition is meant to be part of the game. I look on it as an added dimension of strategic planning rather than a detractor.
Tact Bombers can be a very useful component of your airforce... and while they are certainly not the mainstay of any air component. they have their own distinct role within the game. The fighter definitely remains the work horse of the air.
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@Hepps said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
the idea of a war of attrition is meant to be part of the game. I look on it as an added dimension of strategic planning rather than a detractor.
That's nice, but my point is the cost is too high to replace nearly all of it ever. The strategic plan is mainly prepare for the map turning vanilla by the old method of building barracks closer to the front and spam infantry instead of using trains and planes. Outside Eastern Europe aircraft are too hobbled by terrain penalties and a barracks is the same price as one track piece. (I changed my mind about mechs because they can't be directly bombed.)
The tac tech bonus to def for tanks will almost never be used because fighters will be using the scarce scramble slots. The +1 move tech is gated by the largely useless strat tech.
If you want more realistic terrain effect, aircraft would only have penalties in forest and jungle. I fly in the WW2 game War Thunder. Rough topography is more advantage than disadvantage because the forces on it are hobbled while you are unaffected.
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@BlackFox Generally, buying a bunch of strategic bombers is pretty expensive and really a few fighters and AA guns tends to counter them fairly well. Fighters and naval fighters are generally a bit overpowered if anything given their flexibility/range.
Tacts are good for pressuring bombing materials/trains/etc as well as early game they have better movement and attack especially in open areas than fighters. A few tacts can be very effective on the southern part of the Eastern Front. Their techs are less ideal than fighter techs.
From a game play perspective, planes need to be weaker on hill/mountain terrain otherwise it would be too easy to displace defenders from mountainous areas.
I'd recommend reviewing this guide: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/661/total-world-war-strategy-guide. Then playing some games vs other human opponents here on the forum or in the lobby to see general strategies for the map and balance.
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@BlackFox I agree with @redrum . The game has had 6-7 years of play. Most of the game feels pretty balanced with either side having options to counter an opponents moves. Protecting your infrastructure is achievable with good planning. I intentionally made rail lines expensive as trains represent a very powerful tool to rapid deployment. That and creating an entire network of rail within a territory on a map of this scale would be a substantial investment.
While air has certainly been acknowledged as being pretty strong (fighters in particular)... I am not considering re-vamping the entire air game at this point. That is coming in a new project in development.
But I think engaging in some PVP action would give you a better feel for how games play out.
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If a tactical bomber manages to pick off 1 material, its already a good buy relative to fighters. Trucks end up being exposed fairly often, and even if a tactical bomber isn't hitting the enemy, it could be because its forcing them to move their units differently.
Its not a value unit (fighters are the value aircraft), its a tactical unit. It can force your opponent to do things they don't want to do or kill key units that disrupt an opponent's plans. I have a very distinct memory of taking Moscow only because I bombed away its free material two turns in a row, thus stopping fortifications from being built.
Those tact bomber techs do seem really weak to me though. Since everyone is going to pursue improved fighters pretty much every game, the tact bomber ends up competing against a unit which is improved by tech, while investing in tact bomber techs seems really questionable to me.
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@CrazyG said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
If a tactical bomber manages to pick off 1 material, its already a good buy relative to fighters. Trucks end up being exposed fairly often, and even if a tactical bomber isn't hitting the enemy, it could be because its forcing them to move their units differently.
Its not a value unit (fighters are the value aircraft), its a tactical unit. It can force your opponent to do things they don't want to do or kill key units that disrupt an opponent's plans. I have a very distinct memory of taking Moscow only because I bombed away its free material two turns in a row, thus stopping fortifications from being built.
Those tact bomber techs do seem really weak to me though. Since everyone is going to pursue improved fighters pretty much every game, the tact bomber ends up competing against a unit which is improved by tech, while investing in tact bomber techs seems really questionable to me.
And while I can agree that the Tact. Bomber tech may initially not be a priority... I am also fine with that. There are a variety of Techs that might not be a first choice or seem slightly underwhelming. But that works overall to give a certain structure to the game since it is equal for both sides.
As I have said... if I had it all to do over again... I might be inclined to alter things more. But alas that is not in the cards for TWW. I do not want to start over with dramatic changes when the game has achieved such a high level of balance.
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@wirkey said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
got a new error for you! Although I would think it's the engine.
Territory A and B are adjacent to each other, occupied by the same side. A has AF and Fighters. A and B are both attacked. A scrambles planes into B. A gets conquered, while B remains. Now the game crashes, no message, no save game.
0_1534501684093_scramble error.tsvgThis should be fixed in the latest pre-release after this PR is merged: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/4494
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Some significant improvements to route finding for high movement land units was just added to the latest pre-release: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/4477. TWW is one of the maps that should greatly benefit from these for things like train and truck movement.
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@redrum Why is it limited to only one thumbs up? Thank you Red.
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@Hepps said in Total World War: December 1941 (BETA) 2.8.0.5:
@redrum Why is it limited to only one thumbs up? Thank you Red.
Because I was on the phone :grinning_squinting_face: :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:
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Operation torch beings with the fall of Vichy Protectorate and the Germans taking control:
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@redrum Fate of the Toulon Fleet?
No BB but got a cruiser so far:
Got a sub as well but decided to not bother with the transport:
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@Hepps Here is the merged XML and new action properties files that include both our changes:
Total_World_War_Dec1941_Beta.xml
actionstext.properties -
Hi,
sorry, but I dont understand this new sub techniques. I took a look in the XML-File, where I still found the old property "isDestroyer".
But as you wrote, that property should be deleted.
I also found in the research window (where you select which technique should be researched) the item "Improved Destroyers".
This should be useless and not longer be shown.
Or are these items are not updated?
And when I open the help file, I see "Version 2.7" and two extra pages regarding Version 2.8. Not one single word about Version 3.0Best
LovePlayingAAA -
@LovePlayingAAA Good catch, it appears we missed a few updates on some of the HeavyDestroyers and will fix that in the next minor version.
ImprovedDestroyers and AdvancedDestroyer techs still exist and have been updated to make different improvements for destroyers now. This post outlines the sub/destroyer changes: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/493/total-world-war-december-1941-beta-2-8-0-5/392 (there were a few adjustments to that original vision).
The notes haven't been updated yet for 3.0 but are in-progress and hopefully be added shortly.
Please use the new TWW 3.0 for discussing the new version: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/1181/total-world-war-december-1941-3-0-0-0-now-available
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