Polling Question - Which play style do you prefer?

General_Zod

@cernel 64x64 is not even supported well. The units will get cutoff in various unit selections screens in buy, cm, ncm and combat.

General_Zod

@cernel Personally I'm all for unit detail. But seeing more unit detail won't improve my game, but a wider view of map territories just might.

CrazyG

I use the battle calc to check what units are in a territory if the numbers are large.

I don't find the tabs very useful. I really wish there was a way to keep a certain tabbed locked while moving units, instead of having the history tab keep reopening. Especially if you are moving around the pacific ocean, you really want a wide view to avoid not seeing enemy units, so its a pain to keep moving to the territory tab.

Cernel

@general_zod Not a big deal, really, 64x64 get cut off a few pixels up and down.
But definitely the engine doesn't support going much above 64x64, which sucks.
Actually, playing my map, the main issue of 64x64 is that you have very little space for units in the territory tab, so the territory tab becomes almost useless, as the units are more than can all be displayed in it on screen, thus going out of the territory tab display even before going in overflow, unless you play on a 4k monitor.

Cernel

@cernel But this is also because my map has several stuff that gets written in the territory tab, reducing a lot the space for units.

General_Zod

@crazyg

Yeah bc is nice optional way to see the units since there is a shortcut for it.

Pacific ww2 maps, where you need to see bombers and fighters that are not only in range but going to be in range in 1 or 2 turns is prime example of wide range view being critical. Add long range techs to the mix and even more so.

But I honestly use the territory tab less once my eyes adjust to the units of the map. But its still how I scan to confirm units and their numbers.

beelee

I set the zoom where I can still read the numbers under the unit ( although bombing damage can be hard to read sometimes ) and leave it. I'll scroll around a little but usually click mini map if I have a long ways to go.

Battle calc is nice because you can scroll, it's pretty slow though. Also lists how many units, Hp's etc... I like to see what the units actually are though. Be nice if territory tab would allow you to scroll too.

Can usually see enough of what's going on but I pretty much only play the global map.

redrum

@beelee FYI. You can change the font size of the numbers.

beelee

@redrum yea thanks. I've messed around with it a bit. Got it pretty much where I like it.

redrum

@crazyg Based on your comment, not sure you voted for the right one.

CrazyG

@redrum
The problem is the poll answers have two independent statements

I do played zoomed out, but I don't use the territory tab. Seems I need to start a third party

Cernel

@crazyg I also don't think that your zoom really matters in using or not using the territory tab, unless you really zoom so much that the units are hardly distinguishable (but I don't think anybody does that, unless having a small monitor). That's why I didn't really know what I was voting.
My vote would rather be "the map should be made so that you can see units very well and rarely need to use the territory tab even when zooming out a bit".
I surely never zoom so much to make the units not distinguishable anymore, so when I use the territory tab is only for map's placement limits and wild overflows that are not influenced by the zoom I'm using.

Cernel

@crazyg As I read it, the first option is saying "I zoom the map so much I cannot anymore distinguish the units so I need to look at the territory tab".
If so, that's crazy to me; I can't believe it's winning the poll. So I guess others are intending it differently.

Cernel

If, instead, as @CrazyG is saying, the poll would be just "do you play zoomed out or do you not" that is totally map dependant, in the moment you can go from New World Order to Feudal Japan; Feudal Japan at 50% zoom is still bigger than New World Order.
I can say my usual zoom in World War II v6 is 75%. But I don't ever need to look at the territory tab, in that map.

CrazyG

@cernel
I do zoom out on most maps (I don't play any map on 100%, so I am always zoomed out) and sometimes I adjust zoom as I play because certain areas (usually ocean) often need a wider area to really get the context.

I think the question is meant to about the usefullness of the territory tab, and its really not great. Half of the information about territories is displayed at the bottom of the screen, and in my opinion it should all be moved there. It could also use some display settings. For example in TWW territories like Norway have such a long list of "If captured by Australia-->Exiled Allies" even though that little tid bit is completely useless information. I'd rather have a tab show just units, and showing a decent amount of units without having to scroll.

Cernel

@crazyg I'm all with you, especially if you think about maps with 64x64 units, but I'd rather suggest splitting into two tabs. The "Territory" tab as now without the units and the "Units" tab with only the units and the BC button. Really, you never look at what it is written in the Territory tab, but those things should stay there for double-checking purposes and because there should be an official code-based reference (so you are safe from the mapmaker telling something wrong, or not telling).

Meantime, have you tried "Nimbus"? It leaves some more space for units display, packing the letters more:

Cernel

Also, shouldn't it be "Ctrl+B"?

General_Zod

@cernel

I think your over analyzing the poll question. It's a simple general question. I think there are a lot of people who value wider map view over unit image detail (however it's a trade off). The territory tab is a just a tool used to help navigate and scan the map in this context. And once eyes adjust to the units on the map, the territory tab may be used a bit less.

Yeah the nimbus looks helpful, nice.

@CrazyG

The territory tab in itself is a pain in the ass once the list of units causes a scroll (plus it's so slow via mouse wheel). That is a an area of the UI, that can definitely benefit from a redesign. Also some of the other information is really just clutter as listed (territory exchanges), and would not mind if it was on a separate tab somewhere. It might be use full to the mapmaker to confirm things are as they should be.

Ideally a map maker should have the ability to enable/disable via xml, what information is shown in the tabs.

redrum

@crazyg @General_Zod I took the question as primarily asking whether players use the territory tab frequently vs looking at the actual map to see what units you have. Not so much about zoomed in vs zoomed out since that is very arbitrary and would be better to quantify it for certain maps and specific percentage ranges.

General_Zod

@redrum

The map zoom is relative to each map. So the actual number it's set to, is really irrelevant.

The point is that there is a substantial group of players who find their comfort zone (map zoom/unit zoom) somewhere between seeing a wide swath of territories and being able to reasonably recognize the units. I'm not saying the comfort zone is at the extreme end, but it's almost never above 75% map zoom on a map that use 4 movement units.

Where unit recognition is more difficult (crowed territories, small territories, etc..) the territory tab is a crucial part of the UI when playing with this method.

The actual settings (map zoom/unit zoom) of the comfort zone will vary from map to map and with range of the units on that map. But if unit ranges are similar, then the zoom proportions will also be similar imo.

Also I might use more zoom when I have too. Like seeing sbr damages usually requires a higher zoom level since they don't get listed in the territory tab. I just go 100% and then return to my comfort zone for that map.

I hope this clears it up a bit.

I should also add, that it does become habit to use the territory tab. So I am using it where I don't even need it as well.