Iron War - Official Thread
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Yeah I'd be down for PBF. Hard for me to get a decent block of time uninterrupted, on account of the kid/lady hehe, but I could probably swing a an hour or so after dark to post a save. Because of the scale and the number of players, I think the game works really well for solos vs AI. It stays pretty engaging, even after the point when you might otherwise close the laptop, just because its fun to try different expansion patterns, or set little mini-goals for yourself to spank the machine hehe. I really dig that tripleA has a map that works for this purpose. The standard A&A games can be a little dry, since there's only so much going, even in something like global, to be fun vs the AI.
So that's where my balance recommendations (like with Australia and such) are coming from, but that said, there is no doubt that it will play much much differently PvP.Just as a quick example, when we were talking about hitting French Indo-China immediately with Japanese transports and then taking Sumatra on round 2 (India on round 3 etc), that only happens because the machine doesn't consider blocking maneuvers with their ships. It would be fairly easy for the Allies to stall that play by at least another round, simply by sending a French-Colonies patrol boat, or KNIL destroyer to block the Japanese in the East China Sea Zone. That would restrict Japan to non-combat movements in the critical South China Sea Zone. Similarly the Allies could send a French-Colonies destroyer or cruiser to block at Wake Island Sea Zone, and KNIL a cruiser to block at Pacific 4 Sea Zone which would prevent the Japanese player from taking Philippines.
I imagine that most competent human players would do stuff like that, sacrificing some starting TUV for naval blockers to buy more time, and thereby prevent a bunch of cascading amphibious assaults that might otherwise threaten production centers right out the gate.
You'd still see the Sumatra/India crush taking place, since it makes sense to hit the weaker Allies sooner rather than later, but at least there'd be a few more hitpoints in place before the Japanese arrived. Getting control of Sumatra/Malaya is still really important for Japan, since you can block naval movement from the Indian Ocean once you have it on lockdown. Once you smoke the Dutch it makes sense to leave at least some transports in the Gulf of Thailand Sea Zone so you can threaten amphibious vs India, but I imagine it'd be more about the drive overland in PvP (through Burma/Bengal), shucking units to Hanoi or some such and then pushing across towards Bengal, rather than an instant transport swoop across the south with all the dudes, like you saw me do when I was snaking the AI hehe.
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@black_elk Yeah, I agree about the naval blockers and that's something the AI doesn't understand yet.
Cool. Let me know what side/settings you want and we can look to get a game started.
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Here is the improvement for the AI loading transports more effectively: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/4326. This should help avoid the situation where it leaves factories like West Germany under defended.
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Sounds good. Probably makes sense for me to take Allies, so you can lead with G and get the ball rolling. Standard settings I'd think, since its still sort of a toss up on balance who can get to 20 VCs by the end of the round.
also I'll grab that prerelease when I get home and take another crack vs Hard AI Axis to see how the transport tweak changes things.
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ps. Fired up a game using that latest build with the transport thing.
This is probably how I would use the French-Colonies/ANZAC/KNIL naval units as blockers to really irritate the Japanese player. Just to jack up their combat/non-com transport movements on the first round hehe.
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This will be an exciting game
Even though we can't balance everything based on one single match, I think there could be a lot to learn in regards to the starting balance of the alliances. And it will be interesting to see if the AI has incorporated so much of @redrums thinking patern into itself, that it is kind of a digitalized version of redrum. In that case, @Black_Elk has a lot of experience in whipping AI behinds 
@redrum Remember, while you are sneaking around below the water surface in free Axis submarines, keep an eye out for those free Allied air transports! They spawn like flies on
now.I hope you play so many rounds that the V rockets, maybe Kamikazes and Nukes come into play. These are disturbances that are ment to have an impact, even though not meant to be huge game changers.
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@frostion Should be interesting. And looking back at the change logs, I'd say 0.2.5 was definitely a buff for the Axis and 0.2.6 was definitely a buff for the Allies. I guess if it was closed to balanced before those 2 then they kind of cancel each other out from a balance perspective.
Given the map hasn't seen much PvP action yet, my gut says it'll be decided before we get to the later rounds but we can all hope
PS. You may want to consider adding this property as SZs are rather large and I can see a lot of potential for gamey naval loading blocks: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/572/units-can-load-in-hostile-sea-zones
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I tend to agree, shutting down an unlimited number of transports from loading just by placing a single patrol boat to turn a sz hostile is kinda rough. Especially since there are a lot of potential production hubs around the key sea zones on this map. It'd be nice if you could load and bounce before having to resolve combat.
I'm already thinking about how to exploit that one on the first turn in my game with redrum hehe, if I can figure out how to post to the forums. Though it might still be worth dropping a cruiser down, even if it didn't prevent transport loading just to deter a fly over and G fleet convergence on the safe side of Normandy. Still not sure how to play it, maybe better to withdraw and hope to hold out hella long for USA nukes lol
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So would it be cool if Iron War had "Units Can Load In Hostile Sea Zones" true? That can just be a part of the next update.
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@frostion Yeah, I think so. We added it as the default for TWW and most players seem to prefer it. Feels more intuitive and less gamey. I honestly think almost all maps should adopt it
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I'm having trouble loading this map. I'm using a mac, by the way. TripleA says I've downloaded this map, however, I cannot get to the screen where I can choose AI and human players. I've loaded the console and got this message:
SAXParseException: game: Iron War, line: 2033, column: 59, error: Attribute "isDisplayedFor" must be declared for element type "resource".
this message loaded four times successively for my last attempt. This map looks really cool, and I'd hate to be unable to play it.
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@lincoln-russell
I can take a look at the specific line number in the XML, but I can not immediately recognize this error. A new Iron War version with minor fixes will be out in a matter of days I think, perhaps we ( @redrum ???) can identify your map error before this. -
@frostion Could you expand on your request? I'm not as tech savy as a would like to be.
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@lincoln-russell Can you try downloading the latest TripleA release here: https://triplea-game.org/download/. I believe that error indicates you have an older TripleA release that can't handle some of the new properties that Iron War uses.
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@redrum Would downloading this version replace all my original files? Should I make a folder for all my saves, and will they work with the new versions?
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@lincoln-russell You can have multiple versions installed if you'd like. Generally most players keep their saves in a folder outside of the install. Then you can either install it over the old version or in a separate location.
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Just out of curiosity, any thoughts on why the HardAI Germans don't utilize their transports on G1 to knock off Normandy? They seem to go really light into France as well, to the point where often they don't have enough hitpoints there to take Normandy on G2 overland either. Seems a little curious that they always bounce to the Norwegian Sea Zone with everything, when they could just stay in place and be pretty safe from counter attack. Also, not sure if the German AI is taking advantage of the free sub pen on their first turn. I'm guessing they must max their production capacity at purchase and then don't have the build slot available to place it?
Here's an example about what I mean with the German AI vs the French...
0_1542151182275_elk vs hardAI Axis 133 Russia round 1.tsvg
Also, something kind of interesting happened when I reloaded the AI save at Germany's combat move. The AI made a number of additional movements, which seem to me a lot stronger. Like taking Denmark with their air-transport, strengthening their invasion army to take Paris, making a bombing run on Moscow etc. Here is their opening after I reloaded just before combat, you can see they must have recalculated something. Its a significantly better opening from G.
0_1542151628186_elk vs hardAI Axis 133 Russia round 1 reload.tsvg
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@black_elk The AI doesn't see the triggered sub until after its purchase, for more details: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback/105
There is a lot of variance in the AI when playing dice since it relies on the BC with a low number of rolls to minimize how slow it is. If you want to test specific AI openings/turns, I'd suggest doing it first on LL as that should be less erratic and more consistent.
The main reason that the AI tends to not push enough units towards France is that it overvalues Moscow since it only understands the capitals rules for standard A&A games where you get all the enemy's PUs and they can't production anymore. So it pretty much decides to focus everything it can towards Moscow in most situations.
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Right on. What's funny is that the more times I reload, the more the AI seems to think "hey wait, maybe I should really take France" lol. I tried it with another save just to see what they'd get up to. In this one the AI decided to take Switz and Holland in addition to Denmark, and stacked huge for the battle of France...
0_1542152435438_elk vs hardAI Axis 100 Russia round 1 reload.tsvg
I haven't experimented with LL openings, mainly because I don't really enjoy the low luck playstyle generally, but I can see how it would change things if you know how many hits are coming in a given calc.
I guess G sends the destroyer to take the Russian convoy and then figures it doesn't have enough juice on defense? Too bad cause it seems once the AI moves their fleet north it spends the rest of the match out of commission
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