Age of Tribes - Official Thread
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@Mahks I appreciate your find. If the Axemen are not in the combat frontiers of any player, this is obviously a flaw, and then they are perhaps only shown because they are represented on the map by the player.
I will have to look at the map and XML again. I just played some games to see if things looked right. I maybe did not specifically look for the scenario where a player had access to the unit, had non of the unit on the map and then did a battle calculation.
And I hope we can fix it without messing up anything in the overall trigger system
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@frostion
I think all that is needed is the following line added to each <attachment name="triggerAttachment_XXXX_Develop_Axeman" ...<option name="productionRule" value="production_XXXX_Combat:buyAxeman"/>This was more about me understanding how you did things so that axeman would show up in the UBr.
The game itself is not really affected, except for that esoteric combat calculation.
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You also want to change the developSpearmen trigger, so that it remvoes axemen when that happens
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That is already in place, see example about 6 posts back.
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@Mahks I have now implemented lines you found missing and it seems to work now as originally intended. Thanks for the find!
The new version is called 1.08 and will be downloadable soon. -
I think you can safely lower economic victory to 250 production. Unless that is meant for people bashing the AI real hard or maybe for games against AI with huge bonuses, at 350 doesn't make any difference from the 7 capitals one (people will surrender far before either).
Also, if they are useless (not sure, are the capitals irrelevant for general production and is it documented in notes?), I would remove the capitals. I guess you are keeping them because of the Easy AI bug (?), but they just fool noobs and I wonder if Hard/Fast AI too @redrum? Or are you keeping them only for restricting original territories liberation to the ownership of the starting territory, or for other reasons I'm overlooking?
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Side (not really) note, but this is really an engine problem (maybe somebody should open an issue in GitHub about it, or a feature request in forum for having double production entries for games that may have contested territories producing no income; not sure what would be fitting the most), the production that you actually have, and get in the Players tab, doesn't account contested territories, when they produce no income. On the other hand, the Economic Victory depends on the total owned production, no matter if contested. Thus, in games with possibly contested territories producing no income, you have no way to see any statistics about your total owned production, also in perspective of achieving economic victory. I mean, for example, you can currently achieve the 350+ production victory while the "Production" you have in Players tab is lower than that; the only way you have to know your owned production is either talling it yourself or counting all contested territories you own and adding them up to the given statistic.
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Mostly saying maybe add a warning in notes for the players not to trust the production statistics, since the economic victory is based on the total production, while the production you see in those statistics discounts the contested territories. Of course, doesn't matter right now, since 350 is practically impossible to reach between sensible people.
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@Cernel AoT could function without capitals. But they also ensure that the map centers on the player's capital at start of the player's turn. In AoT the map centers on capital and a special start player turn is played.
Also, a distinctive capture-capital sound is played when conquering 1 of the 7 needed capture points/capitals. If the victory locations were not tagged as capitals, then players would not be noted about the loss of an important territory, at least not with a special sound. Is there any specific reason or way the gameplay would be improved by removing the capital tags?Yes I have also noted that the production count that triggers a victory does not correspond with the total production count in the tabs. I see this as a minor issue, and I actually haven't regarded it as a map issue, just an annoying engine thing that probably has its reasons for being as it is.
The 350 PU victory could probably be set to 300 or lower, but it is mostly meant to be a vs. AI win value. My impression is that humans would surrender a long time before this, just as they would surrender pretty early in most other maps with PU victory conditions set. I guess people can see already from the first couple of battles see where a game is heading. But I also think (at least from own experience) that when playing against the AI, it is fun to finish the job and annihilate the AI completely, playing way past the point of a sure win. I kind of assumed that others felt the same way.
Map maker of: Star Wars: Galactic War + Star Wars: Tatooine War + Caribbean Trade War + Dragon War + Age of Tribes + Star Trek: Dilithium War + Iron War + Iron War: Europe + Warcraft: War Heroes
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@frostion I'm sure the AI would rather enjoy completely annihilating the human player as well
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@frostion Well, in that case they should be tagged as victory cities, instead of capitals. Anyways, I just suggest adding a big warning in notes that capitals only determine victory conditions and allow territory liberation, while don't make you lose income if captured and are not required for collecting income and purchasing units.
I'm not finding any reference in notes about the fact that capitals are almost useless, so I've no clue how noobs are supposed to know that.
And I suggest you move the purchase phase before non combat move, meaning:Combat Move - Combat Resolution - Purchase - Non Combat Move - Placement
Also I think I would never go for taking Ireland; maybe removing the barbarian, so that it becomes land grab after the besties are gone.
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@frostion said in Age of Tribes - Official Thread:
Also, a distinctive capture-capital sound is played when conquering 1 of the 7 needed capture points/capitals. If the victory locations were not tagged as capitals, then players would not be noted about the loss of an important territory, at least not with a special sound.
This sounds like a good feature request for having a specific sound when capturing a Victory City.
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Anybody tried to play this versus the AI. I want a game to last from primial age to the end, and have it being a challenge. I tried playing the british, but then either my allies killed the enemy without me getting my share of the fun, or I got doomed. Playing the ottoman, and setting 2 of my allies to easy AI seemed so far to give me somewhat nice resistance. I'm kikked out of turkey but I've occupied Britian and taken much of west Europe...
However, a question, what is attack and defence and attack versus air? How is that suppose to work?
Also, I'm pretty impressed that you manged to make tech upgrades worth it. Normaly in A&A the cheapest unit is the finest. Go for it on mass.
But, it isn't that big difference between the different units. Is it better to tech one or two lines and drop a few? Or do you want access to all different units?
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@hanssverre Age of Tribes is meant and constructed to be very AI compatible, but of course there are a few niches that the AI does not handle well (like rockets, nukes, paratroopers etc.) But overall the AI handles well.
I think other people have more experience than me in regards to playing games vs. AI, especially @CrazyG has played a lot. He might have some tips for you, like about the tech and choices.
But I can say that you should not use easy AI but instead hard AI. And if it is too easy, then give extra % resources/income before launching the map. As I remember the easy AI has some truble with some aspects of AoT.
The air units may have two sets of stats. One stat is normal attack/defens and the other is probably "interception" / air battle stats. Like is a bomber wants to bomb a base, but then defending fighters are launched to shoot bomber down before it bombs. The intercepting fighters use their air battle stats. Also fighters that maybe flew alongside the bomber as escort would defend themselves and the bomber with their air battle stats.
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I should have specified, I play 1 out of the 4 allies, and I sett two of my allies to easy, all other where HARD. To make my allies loose but me come in and save the day
Yes, AI seems preaty good, especially on land.
Ahhh. I see. So fighters can fight in interception in addition to normal
Interesting setup. -
Would it be possible to have a worldwide version of Age of Tribes, like your 'Iron War' scenario, and rename this map to 'Age of Tribes: Europe'?
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How about, now that it is possible, changing the Mammoth into a not-infrastructure that turns into a defenceless capturable infrastructure if reduced to 0 hitpoints (and repairs back to previous if not captured)? This way, you have to fight to get them, also if all mammoth, which would make more sense (and would also likely help reducing the current bad play of the AI with managing them, leaving them exposed).
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Also, there is no point for nature to Non Combat Move on round 10. Rather better remove nature at the end of combat, on that turn, then let it do pointless non-combat redeployments. Tho, really, it is weird that you do combat movement, combat, maybe conquer territories, and then suddenly die. It would make some more sense if the beasts go extinct at the start of one of their turns; say, at start of their turn on round 10 (so, not doing that turn at all), if they are supposed to be defending for up to 10 rounds.
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Also, I suggest you enable loading in hostile sea zones, and document it in notes.
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Also, it would be better for the "Age" bonuses/objectives (PUs and Tech) to be given at end turn ("Turn Complete"), at the same moment you normally collect PUs, instead of before purchase. It would be generally more coherent and it would help you figure what you want to do, upon planning your purchase, during Combat Movement and such, if you have your (and everyone else's) actual statistics already definite (especially in the moment you are making your Combat Movement, and want to look at what PUs you have, to know what you will able to purchase, on that turn, without having to know and add up the Age bonuses, on top of that).
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