Global Dominance

[Cernel]

@Hepps said in Global Dominance:

@CrazyG Not yet... but I have been told it is possible. Just never got the specifics on how to achieve it. But if it is possible then I am sure I will figure it out at some point.

Unless I'm missing something recently, I'm 99% sure this is not possible in a clear way. The person who affirmed this must have found some work-around. Better you get him to tell you his secret; might be some crazy stuff you would never guess.

What I can think of, is making the hull into an air unit with movement 1 and make it possible to move only to the sea, with territory effects or (land to land) canals.

[theredbaron]

I have gotten a hull built on land to work with an isKamikaze 1 movement air unit that is consumed after it is moved into the sea zone in non combat. This does require moving the check for non-landed air units to after placement in the delegates, which shouldn't disrupt the game to my knowledge. However, I think @CrazyG has a cleaner solution than that. If anyone wants the XML that I used to work that, pm me.

[Hepps]

@theredbaron Yes he was in fact the one who indicated he had devised a clean system for achieving this.

[Hepps]

@prastle Well here are a few more units I have gotten more or less completed...

Just to let your imagination mull over what they shall do.

[theredbaron]

@Hepps Never fear. I think my imagination is up to the task

[CrazyG]

@Cernel
I'll go ahead and share my secret.

You need the unit to be able to move onto both land and sea, so you make it an airunit. You purchase it and place it on land like any other air unit.

Then you give it carrierCost=0, which lets it land in empty sea zones as if there was a carrier there. So on the next you move your hull into the sea zone and it should land just fine (isKamikaze could work as well but this seems cleaner). Then you buy the battleship, and it should consume the hull just like it would consume a sea unit version.

In version 1.8 I had an XML with this working, life got in the way before I could share it though.

[Hepps]

@CrazyG You the man! That would have taken me an eternity to figure out if I even ever managed to do it at all.

[Hepps]

@CrazyG It's just a crying shame I can only up-vote your post once. That deserves something like 30 up-votes based on its value to me!

[CrazyG]

@Hepps
well thanks, I'm glad to help. Its a cool trick for other stuff too

What I'm dying to know is have you figured out trains?

[theredbaron]

@Hepps I'll second this one. Sutur2 on in his new WWI map has used them as simple land transports, and I don't mind that entirely, but a system with infrastructure as you had proposed would be ideal to represent that portion of the war, how the Allies often bombed infrastructure in areas as a prelude to an attack to prevent reinforcement.

@CrazyG You had a system with triggers to this affect in a former thread, no? I think it may have had something to do with triggering terrain effects, if I remember correctly.

[Cernel]

@CrazyG I've never considered that carrierCost=0 would allow to land in empty sea zones; I guessed it would just allowed infinite on a single carrier.

Still, this may be considered a hack, and continuous support for such a behaviour in the future would be dubious; still, if you want the game fully supported, you have the issue that this plane is still able to move to your nearby land territory, as well as moving by sea and re-entering another land territory, both things you probably don't want (you can impede it with a tons of canals).

[theredbaron]

It may be beneficial to ask the devs to keep this feature as it poses no harm to existing maps. This may be a prime example of a bug becoming a feature.

@redrum Is this reasonable?

[CrazyG]

@Cernel
I would just make it a 0 movement, which recieves +1 movement from factories/harbors whatever. Once you put it into a sea zone its stuck, so there isn't much reason to put it there unless you intend to finish building it that turn

I discovered the 0 carrier cost thing a long time ago (I think it was version 1.4) so hopefully it isn't changed in the future

@theredbaron
Yes but that system has shown to have a lot of problems and its probably why I never got to releasing that ww1 map.

I was trying to avoid having trains themselves on the map, to reduce micromanagment and simplify things a bit. But Ive found I really didn't like the resulting feel that i got

[theredbaron]

If all else fails, and since this map is going to need user enforced rules anyways, we could ask the players to make sure that each territory on the route has functional infrastructure. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

[Cernel]

@CrazyG You cannot normally select 0 movement units, regardless of the movement bonus they are getting, but there is a property for making them selectable, but this is not really good, because, then, all those immobile units you don't want to select become selectable, as well, and this is a bit annoying. And there is still the issue that you can move the air hull to a territory nearby (unless you add up some canals or territory effects negating hulls). However, you can get around the first issue by hacking the air hull into a movement 1 unit that gives -1 to itself and receives +1 from harbour.

[redrum]

@CrazyG said in Global Dominance:

@Cernel
I'll go ahead and share my secret.

You need the unit to be able to move onto both land and sea, so you make it an airunit. You purchase it and place it on land like any other air unit.

Then you give it carrierCost=0, which lets it land in empty sea zones as if there was a carrier there. So on the next you move your hull into the sea zone and it should land just fine (isKamikaze could work as well but this seems cleaner). Then you buy the battleship, and it should consume the hull just like it would consume a sea unit version.

In version 1.8 I had an XML with this working, life got in the way before I could share it though.

That is pretty creative and interesting. I wasn't aware that "carrierCost=0" allows air units to land in empty sea zones with carriers. I would definitely consider this somewhat of an edge case that is really just an outcome of how the current code was written.

I think the question here is what should "carrierCost=0" really mean and be used for? Should it allow air units to land in sea zones with no carrier? Or should it require a carrier but just take up no carrier capacity? Or something I'm not even thinking of? Whatever we come to a consensus on should probably be added to the Pact of Steel 2 comments so its spelled out somewhere.

PS. It would be great for some of the awesome map makers to take ownership of that Pact of Steel 2 XML to help me keep it up to date as many of you know the game XML better than I do.

[CrazyG]

#redrum
If you change this, I hope you would make the current function available as another feature. Its a very cool feature with interesting applications.

I personally don't see any reason to change it. If you wanted a unit require a carrier to land but not take space you could just give it a carrierCost of 1 and give the carrierCapacity to 1,000

[Hepps]

@CrazyG I agree. The transition from land to sea has been a challenge to address. So this option is a heaven sent blessing.

[redrum]

@CrazyG Good point on being able to use massive carrierCapacity and small carrierCost for having units that require little carrier space. I'm fine with leaving the functionality as it works today but would like to document this somewhere so its more explicit not just something that happens to work.

[CrazyG]

@redrum
lets add a comment about it to PoS 2 XML? That should do it