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    Battle Calculator Question/Feature?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Feature Requests & Ideas
    27 Posts 7 Posters 13.1k Views 7 Watching
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    • redrumR Offline
      redrum Admin @ghostronin
      last edited by

      @ghostronin Yeah, I've thought about this before and go back and forth. The problem is you still need to consider if things change between the current players turn and when their enemy would go. So it could often give a false sense in the case of can-openers and such. The AI actually does use something similar to this when determining where to defend.

      TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

      ghostroninG 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • ghostroninG Offline
        ghostronin @redrum
        last edited by

        @redrum Could clarify/provide example of this piece :things change between the current players turn and when their enemy would go." I'm not sure I understand the full breadth of what could change, e.g. tech, multi-nation moves (TWW - Italy then German move against Russia).

        redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • redrumR Offline
          redrum Admin @ghostronin
          last edited by

          @ghostronin Yeah, imagine you are playing Russia's turn and have 1 unit in an adjacent territory blocking germany tanks from 2 territories away. You think you are safe but then on Italy's turn they attack that one unit to clear the path for Germany's tanks (known as a can opener). So when you checked max attackers, you thought the Russian were safe as they were before Italy went.

          TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • ghostroninG Offline
            ghostronin
            last edited by

            Ok, I understand and agree in reference to my highlighted units piece.

            However, I think that could potentially be resolved by my request in my original post. A click-add of enemy units within a territory. In the Italian/German/Russian example. The Russian defender could assume that Italy is going to use a "can-opener", then click-add the german units that could potentially blitz thru.

            IMHO the click-add combined with the hotkey function would be especially helpful. To your point, the battle calculator in any form is only a good as the person not only inputting but interpreting the information, GIGO.

            redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • redrumR Offline
              redrum Admin @ghostronin
              last edited by

              @ghostronin Exactly. I do agree with your original proposal. I think the key is giving players the tools to quickly and easily select the units they want to simulate battles for. Just being able to test a defense and click the adjacent enemy held land territories to select those as the attackers then you can manually add say enemy planes or multi-move land units would save a ton of time.

              TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • redrumR Offline
                redrum Admin
                last edited by

                So I'm reviving this thread as I've decided to embark on trying to make at least some fixes and improvements to the BC. This is mostly due to a number of the bugs really starting to bother me especially on more complex maps.

                So besides the original request around a way to add attackers/defenders to an already open BC, what else would folks like to see fixed/improved?

                TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                LaFayetteL 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • LaFayetteL Offline
                  LaFayette Admin @redrum
                  last edited by

                  @redrum I've always thought Copy/Paste buttons would be nice to have. A 'copy' button would save a set of units and enable a 'paste' button that would load those same units back. It's easy to launch two battle calc's, so it'd be a reasonably easy way to transfer data between the two. A next feature that would be nice is a side-bar that could save/manage a list of saved unit lists. For example it's pretty common to keep track of a specific stack, saving 2 or 3 stacks into the saved list could save a lot of redundancy.

                  The simple click on another territory to load units I like. Getting a good UX there will be a bit tricky but could be very worthwhile. It would also be good to see a way to 'add' units and not just replace units as well. Thinking of a scenario where you want to sum up attackers from 2 or 3 territories.

                  redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • redrumR Offline
                    redrum Admin @LaFayette
                    last edited by

                    @LaFayette Good suggestions. I'd like to move towards a single battle calc window with tabs vs multiple windows. I think that will make a lot of things easier to manage and more clear what your 'active' tab is for adding units with hotkeys while keeping other calcs around. I'm already working on making sure it "adds" and not "replaces" units and that you can change to a different allied nation as the defender and it not clear the units.

                    The unit lists idea is an interesting one as well and hadn't thought that far ahead yet.

                    TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • redrumR Offline
                      redrum Admin
                      last edited by

                      Initial PR for some of the changes is up: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/4576

                      TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • redrumR Offline
                        redrum Admin
                        last edited by redrum

                        Changes so far:

                        • Added ability to use CTRL+A and CTRL+D to add attackers and defenders to last active battle calc window
                        • Improved default player selection for attacker and defender when opening a new battle calc
                        • Allow changing defending player in BC and if any of the current units are owned by the new defending player then units no longer reset
                        • When switching players in BC, it only moves over the units of the new attacking player (not any allied units which can't actually attack)
                        • BC considers isInfra units in unit counts and TUV (otherwise you could add combat isInfra units and it would appear they would always improve your TUV chance even if they were pretty much always being lost)
                        • Can have 0 move and can't combat move units in BC attackers for maps which have limited combat rounds (this is because battles can last more than 1 round so these units can become attackers)
                        • Changed action tab hotkey to 'C' and updated help menu
                        • Defending units now create separate columns for each player
                        • Scales appropriately based on unit list and number of defending players but also has a max window size slightly smaller than TripleA window

                        TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                        • redrumR Offline
                          redrum Admin
                          last edited by redrum

                          Here are some examples of the updated BC.

                          Global 40 Before
                          0d00c57b-5678-4467-b8e0-6f35f14d9a3e-image.png

                          Global 40 After
                          21683464-727c-4b93-83b1-435b126963bb-image.png

                          Dragon War - Using CTRL+D to Add Defenders
                          f95583ac-3128-4911-8ff4-8712697e7003-image.png

                          Dragon War - BC Includes IsInfra Unit Value in TUV
                          0c482f88-7e57-4028-bf2e-0c3e3bd98d32-image.png

                          TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • FrostionF Offline
                            Frostion Admin
                            last edited by Frostion

                            @redrum Very nice improvements. 😃 Would it not be a good idea to add some sort of information and instructions about how to use these features? I could imagine a little help button some where in the window that opened a popup with all shortcut keys and what they did. Button could be a little icon like: alt text

                            Map maker of: Star Wars: Galactic War + Star Wars: Tatooine War + Caribbean Trade War + Dragon War + Age of Tribes + Star Trek: Dilithium War + Iron War + Iron War: Europe + Warcraft: War Heroes

                            redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • redrumR Offline
                              redrum Admin @Frostion
                              last edited by redrum

                              @Frostion Yeah, that's probably a good idea. I'd like to at least get the changes in the pre-release and have a few folks try it out then we can probably come up with some help text. I also added buttons for adding attackers/defenders in the territory tab under the battle calc one.

                              TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • C Offline
                                Cernel Moderators
                                last edited by

                                First advice first, I already made a number of times, is changing the name of the Battle Calculator/Odds Calculator to "Battle Simulator". It doesn't calculate your odds: it simulates battles a number of times and make statistics out of it.

                                Probably not the best place to talk about this, as this is a problem rather than a feature request (unless FFA and such are not meant to be supported, which I assume it is not the case), but there is still that long standing problem (bug?) that the battlecalculator doesn't allow you to calculate against Allies.

                                Obviously, this is tailored for all those games in which you have two sides committed against one another, that is true even in the case of diplomatically dynamic games like "WW2 Global" (where it can never happen a same other player switching from Allied to War with you, or vice versa), but it breaks down any games in which a player you are currently Allied with may be at War with you in the future, and you want to calculate now for any occurrences (the game may even allow to go directly from Allied to War, at the start of one's turn, so you would really want to calculate your defence, at least, there).

                                This is a major problem for games allowing to go Allied to War (directly or indirectly) and vice versa and having player specific frontiers, while it is mostly just an annoyance for games in which all players have the same frontier, which is actually the case for almost all such games, as you can just calculate using one of the players you are not at war with, except that, if you are allied with everyone, the Battlecalculator breaks down completely.

                                If you play "Napoleonic Empires: FFA 8 Player" and keep upgrading all relationships you can with France, getting always accepted, after the Politics of Round 3, if you try to open the Battlecalculator with France, you will get a warning:

                                "No enemies or non-allies for :Playerld named:France

                                And the following in the console:

                                java.lang.IllegalStateException: No enemies or non-allies for :PlayerId named:France
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorPanel.getEnemy(OddsCalculatorPanel.java:655)
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorPanel.lambda$new$0(OddsCalculatorPanel.java:348)
	at javax.swing.JComboBox.fireActionEvent(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.JComboBox.setSelectedItem(Unknown Source)
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorPanel.<init>(OddsCalculatorPanel.java:449)
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorDialog.<init>(OddsCalculatorDialog.java:67)
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorDialog.show(OddsCalculatorDialog.java:35)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ui.menubar.GameMenu.lambda$new$1(GameMenu.java:75)
	at games.strategy.ui.SwingAction$1.actionPerformed(SwingAction.java:65)
	at javax.swing.AbstractButton.fireActionPerformed(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.AbstractButton$Handler.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.DefaultButtonModel.fireActionPerformed(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.DefaultButtonModel.setPressed(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.AbstractButton.doClick(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicMenuItemUI.doClick(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicMenuItemUI$Handler.mouseReleased(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.AWTEventMulticaster.mouseReleased(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.JComponent.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue.access$500(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
	at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
	at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$4.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$4.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
	at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)

                                With this said, I think it has been a few years since I've seen anyone playing any Napoleonic Empires FFA, and that's the most popular (and arguably best) multi-sides politic game TripleA offers. And, on top of that, if, playing a wargame, you end up allied with everyone, there must be a problem with that game, but I can say this indeed happens when you play Napoleonic Empires FFA (I remember of people complaining they were unable to use the battlecalculator, because of this, after they got allied with everyone...).

                                Aside from this, I believe the battlecalculator has a number of minor issues and marginal unsupported items. I'll see to try to recall them, if I can remember them all, and make a compilation here, if there is interest in making a general clean up for this utility.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • C Offline
                                  Cernel Moderators
                                  last edited by

                                  Also, bugging myself off by trying to battlecalculate when everyone Allied crashed TripleA leaving it invisible. So I just had to open task manager to kill the process, or I couldn't delete that map's zip.

                                  redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • redrumR Offline
                                    redrum Admin @Cernel
                                    last edited by redrum

                                    @Cernel If you have a save game reproducing the FFA error using the pre-release then I can probably take a quick look to see if I can fix it. But generally so few maps are actual FFA and so few people play them that not much attention is paid and few bugs are ever reported.

                                    And I don't really have a strong preference on what its called in game. It is also referred to as Odds Calculator in some places. If there is a strong consensus on what it should be named then I'm glad to update all the in-game references.

                                    TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                                    C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • C Offline
                                      Cernel Moderators @redrum
                                      last edited by

                                      @redrum Ok, I guessed just opening Napoleonic Empires FFA, get everyone allied (possible in edit mode too), then try to open the battlecalculator was easy enough. I'll upload a savegame shortly.

                                      Another argument for calling stuff the correct way is that if anyone would ever develop a true Battlecalculator (something that actually calculates your odds on a probability tree), you may want to call that one as Battle/Odds Calculator, and I guess at least for a while the two utilities would coexist.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • C Offline
                                        Cernel Moderators @redrum
                                        last edited by

                                        @redrum Loading this savegame (in which France is Allied with every players but Neutral):
                                        BugReportCernel_Napoleonic Empires FFA 8 Player_1.10_20190118_01.tsvg

                                        Trying to open the Battle Calculator, I get this error:

                                        gen 18, 2019 1:12:12 AM org.triplea.game.client.HeadedGameRunner lambda$main$0
GRAVE: No enemies or non-allies for :PlayerId named:France
java.lang.IllegalStateException: No enemies or non-allies for :PlayerId named:France
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorPanel.getEnemy(OddsCalculatorPanel.java:655)
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorPanel.lambda$new$0(OddsCalculatorPanel.java:348)
	at javax.swing.JComboBox.fireActionEvent(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.JComboBox.setSelectedItem(Unknown Source)
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorPanel.<init>(OddsCalculatorPanel.java:449)
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorDialog.<init>(OddsCalculatorDialog.java:67)
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorDialog.show(OddsCalculatorDialog.java:35)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ui.menubar.GameMenu.lambda$new$1(GameMenu.java:75)
	at games.strategy.ui.SwingAction$1.actionPerformed(SwingAction.java:65)
	at javax.swing.AbstractButton.fireActionPerformed(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.AbstractButton$Handler.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.DefaultButtonModel.fireActionPerformed(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.DefaultButtonModel.setPressed(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.AbstractButton.doClick(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicMenuItemUI.doClick(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicMenuItemUI$Handler.mouseReleased(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.AWTEventMulticaster.mouseReleased(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.JComponent.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue.access$500(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
	at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
	at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$4.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$4.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
	at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)

gen 18, 2019 1:12:35 AM org.triplea.game.client.HeadedGameRunner lambda$main$0
GRAVE: null
java.lang.NullPointerException
	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.OddsCalculatorDialog.dispose(OddsCalculatorDialog.java:77)
	at java.awt.Window.disposeImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Window$1DisposeAction.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Window.doDispose(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Window.dispose(Unknown Source)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ui.TripleAFrame.stopGame(TripleAFrame.java:591)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ui.display.TripleADisplay.shutDown(TripleADisplay.java:102)
	at games.strategy.triplea.TripleA.shutDown(TripleA.java:81)
	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.stopGame(ServerGame.java:351)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ui.TripleAFrame.leaveGame(TripleAFrame.java:635)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ui.TripleAFrame$1.windowClosing(TripleAFrame.java:259)
	at java.awt.AWTEventMulticaster.windowClosing(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.AWTEventMulticaster.windowClosing(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.AWTEventMulticaster.windowClosing(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Window.processWindowEvent(Unknown Source)
	at javax.swing.JFrame.processWindowEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Window.processEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue.access$500(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
	at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
	at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$4.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue$4.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
	at java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
	at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)

                                        I wan to, again, point out that this problem appears to verify when a player is Allied with every other player except the null (Neutral) player. At least France should have been able to battlecalculate against Neutral. However, this is just an edge problem of a more general and more important problem: the program doesn't allow you to battlecalculate against your allies, that is a major issue for games in which you can go from Allied to War relationships (if everyone has the same units, there is the workaround of calculating against some other player you are currently not Allied with, if any).

                                        wirkeyW 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • wirkeyW Offline
                                          wirkey Moderators @Cernel
                                          last edited by

                                          @Cernel @redrum not sure if you already have that.
                                          I'd like the possibility to add allied units to the defending units. Necessary for maps with tech.
                                          Another one would be the option to add techs in the BC. In a map like TWW you can only estimate how a certain tech changes the odds.

                                          redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • redrumR Offline
                                            redrum Admin @wirkey
                                            last edited by

                                            @wirkey There is now the ability to add defenders from any territory to an open battle calc so that you can have multiple defending nations.

                                            Tech and damaged units are 2 things I'd like to eventually add into the BC but still aren't available at this point.

                                            TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0

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