💥 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread
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Couple things noticed in my last game as Italy, but which apply to all factions. Mostly to do with aircraft, scrambling air battles etc...
So currently defending aircraft scrambled-in aren't showing in the battle screen. Or at least sometimes they would seem to be invisible. Basically you won't see them until they're dead, and shown in the casualties bar, which can make it hard to parse what's happening, like when a retreat might be in order. Since control+B doesn't work once you're in the fight, this can be confusing.
Also because of the way air targeting and flak work, its possible to capture a TT out from under defending aircraft just by using ground, in which case all those aircraft units will die automatically at the end of the phase. This can be very extreme and is mainly an AI issue I suppose, cause as soon as you see it happen you won't be parking air where there's a chance they could get smoked as a player, but still, a bit wonky there.
In general Air remain effective for airblitz (not for taking a TT, like sacrificing air to keep 1 attacking ground unit alive, since targetting doesn't allow the player to pick and choose that way) but nevertheless FastAI will carve up ground units pretty effectively from the air. Again this is owing to the flak implementation I think, since the aircraft are less likely to take these hits, they can remain and fight till all the ground and bunkers are dead even if they won't actually take the TT that way. This is fine by me, and I sorta dig it, but on defense with air the situation is more nail biting.
For defending air, I think there is some question about whether we really need offensive flak for attacking infantry, or if their should maybe be a cap here on flak in terms of the number of battle rounds? Similarly scrambling to intercept in an Air Battle would seem to be bad plan generally, unless you are certain to win. As a result the AI (perhaps wisely) declines most air battles because the attrition and lost TUV there is quite high. Like you really need to know you'll win a dogfight with superior numbers, to make it feel worth it.
We may want to cap dogfights to a single battle round, so it's not a blowout there if the dogfight continues until one side is fully knocked down. I think the main issue is not the flak or air battles per se, but how the air units function in normal combat afterwards, since the hits there are less reliable, rolled at lower values like the 1 or 2, there's a decent chance of infanfry dudding their flak and fighters sticking around for another pass. Basically the air hitpoint functions differently than the ground hitpoint here, in terms of fodder/coverage for other units not of that same unit class.
Some of the complexity here is coming from making these air units behave sorta like submarines do in A&A, which are notorious for adding a lot of rules overhead to combats where they're involved. Main difference being that subs are fairly niche in A&A and can dive and remain in see zones which their team doesn't control, which defensive air can't, since they need that TT control for the landing/parking. An air retreat to an adjacent tile after might work better than auto-destruction on TT capture, and better than a forced stalemate in a contested TT where only air defender remain, not sure if that's doable though?
Another thing I saw is how Bomber-Mediums are used in a combat role, especially since FastAI will bring them into fights where they can't hit anything, but can sometimes still be used at flak fodder. This can feel a bit odd, but I think the FastAI sees there must be some advantage to it. It'll bring a bunch of bombers to attack ships or subs only to have the combat end, resolving before shots are fired.
Of these the biggest right now is the defensive aircraft kill via amphib I think, since that can exploited. For example, Italy can kill like a dozen Allied aircraft on say Malta or Gibraltar, by surviving the initial salvo to destoy the bunkers via amphib or bombardment, then all the oppoments air are nixed. Very powerful to pull one over on the FastAI.
Anyhow, just some stuff to have a look at. Overall it seems much improved using the last build with the pre-release. FastAI handed me 3 losses in a row the other day, which is pretty good! Italy was a lot of fun and much more challenging. Computer had me on my heels trying to hold North Africa and defending Italy itself, rather than like taking over Brazil or going globe trotting. Nice work!
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Latest version 135 ready for download from 1st page 1st post
Latest version of faster TripleA 2.6.14469 has much reduced warning errors, get it here;
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/tag/2.6.14469
Thank you @Alexei-Svitkine
If using faster 2.6 remember to minimize the error box to the taskbar, to stop it it reappearing (this is only a warning error please ignore it)
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MAJOR CHANGES- Bomber-Tac can be built from Industry-Med
- More Impassables are back; Tenere, Tibesti, Himalayas, W.Tibet, Lhasa-E.Tibet, Chili (whiter/brighter than Neutrals)
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EAST- Pacific-Allies get Bomber-Tac (thanks Black-Elk)
- USA Rounds 2-20 purchases/places 2x Destroyers in 010 B SZ in the Pacific (back again, the AI needs help in the Pacific)
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TODO- Balance
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Link to 1st post that has the download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread -
Latest version 140 ready for download from 1st page 1st post
Latest version of faster TripleA 2.6.14469 has much reduced warning errors, get it here; (same link as v135)
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/tag/2.6.14469
Thank you @Alexei-SvitkineIf using faster 2.6 remember to minimize the error box to the taskbar, to stop it it reappearing (this is only a warning error please ignore it)
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MAJOR CHANGES- Air Battle Defenders Can Retreat = false, was true, the AI does not play well on true and will waste lots of TUV (thanks Black Elk)
- New terrain effects banner for Impassable terrain
- Documentation, standardized to 14 point for 2560 x 1440, 2K, Quad HD, QHD plus screen resolutions, was 11, 12 & 14 point
- Outline of the manual added end of Help> Game Notes
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EAST- Karachi gets Industry-Lgt was Base-Camp (India finally gets its rail network)
- Nagpur lost its Base-Camp
- Calcutta gets Industry-Lgt was Base-Camp (India finally gets its rail network)
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TODO- Balance
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Link to 1st post that has the download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread -
@black_elk said in
1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:So currently defending aircraft scrambled-in aren't showing in the battle screen. Or at least sometimes they would seem to be invisible. Basically you won't see them until they're dead, and shown in the casualties bar, which can make it hard to parse what's happening, like when a retreat might be in order. Since control+B doesn't work once you're in the fight, this can be confusing.
Essentially, that is 'Air Battle Defenders Can Retreat' = false. This will force any air units, even scrambled, that are in the attacking territory to participate in the air battle. And it function the same way as a land/sea battle. Attackers fire first, without any pause, and defender choses casualties. If there is only 1 type of unit defending, or attackers hit all defenders, then there is no casualty selection. With the defender returning fire next. And just like land/sea battles, any surviving defenders cannot retreat. And yes, trying to bring up the battle calculator during combat does not work. As the attacker the "battle" should be check prior to ending "combat movement", as the defender... oh well!!
@black_elk said in
1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:Also because of the way air targeting and flak work, its possible to capture a TT out from under defending aircraft just by using ground, in which case all those aircraft units will die automatically at the end of the phase. This can be very extreme and is mainly an AI issue I suppose, cause as soon as you see it happen you won't be parking air where there's a chance they could get smoked as a player, but still, a bit wonky there.
Agree here. I have/was testing with all Flak/Dog Fight AA attacks removed/reduced to 0, also "canNotTarget" removed or changed. I like the feel of attacking with overwhelming air power, to remove defensive air units, and having that air superiority during the insuring land battle. I also set "Air Battle Rounds" to 3. It feels right with "forced" air battles. Plus air units are not stationary. I use the same reasoning for sea battles, navel units are always moving, albeit, much slower the air units, so I set "Sea Battle Rounds" to 5, and leave land battles at 7 (or -1, but I do this very rarely).
Setting/removing Flak/Dog Fight allow AA attacks to be redirected elsewhere. Like Bomber-Tac, with the new 2.6+ updates, its AA attacks can now be directed against armor/navel units, as was done prior.
Defending units cannot retreat during land/sea battles, with the exception of submarines. Air units cannot attack infantry. So if I see a stack of air unit in a territory, unprotected, I'm going to try and get some infantry there, even if I have to transport them, but the railways really help here!! And I have seven rounds of free kills!! I attacked a stack of 7 German fighters with 1 Russian elite, killing 3. During the German AI turn, the air was not move, nor was the territory reinforced. All German air units were lost, and the Russian elite was still there to capture the territory! I don't see air units as submarines, but more like undefended Transport, they can't retreat and they can't defend.
@black_elk said in
1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:Another thing I saw is how Bomber-Mediums are used in a combat role, especially since FastAI will bring them into fights where they can't hit anything, but can sometimes still be used at flak fodder. This can feel a bit odd, but I think the FastAI sees there must be some advantage to it. It'll bring a bunch of bombers to attack ships or subs only to have the combat end, resolving before shots are fired.
Yep, Bombers, and by extension, bomber-mediums cannot target any navel unit. An 'isDistroyer' unit only removes "canNotBeTargetedBy" and should have no effect on "canNotTarget". Breaking down "isSub" was an addition to the base TripleA engine, thus the AI was not updated to consider this when planning its movements. It's so much fun watching the AI waist movements like this!!
I'm not sure if the AI uses "canScramble". Going to have to test this, but "canScramble" units movement is not validated, except for the presents of "isImpassable" territories, so its use with land/sea units is ill-advised. When I play a few rounds for fun, I change many aspects of the combat. I like the forced air battles, so a lot of the Flak "offensiveAttackAA"/"attackAA" are reduiced to 0, and 'Dog Fight' AA attacks are removed. As is almost all "canNotTarget" stuff. Also, I still have the Anti-Air Gun. It does change the game. I wish that "isStrategicBomber" worked with land unit better. I think that would make this map even more interesting.
Some ...clouded.. thoughts.
Cheers...
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Would players like a manual?
If so what would you like to see in it?
Here is a draft version of what it could look like
1941 Global Command Decision Manual.pdf -
Dear 1941 Global Command Decision Team,
I have downloaded the newest game version, namely v140.
But every time when I start the game, it writes: "Invalid value 15 for class games.strategy.engine.data.properties.NumberProperty java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid value 15 for class games.strategy.engine.data.properties.NumberProperty".
My TripleA version is 2.5.22294, my Java version is 11.0.6.
Could you please give me some advice where the possible mistake could be?
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@unternehmer
Try and unzip the file, in the usual place? -
@thedog said in
1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:@unternehmer
Try and unzip the file, in the usual place?Dear @thedog,
I beg your pardon for my unnecessary concern. The error appears no longer.
It seems to be some kind of internal file error of the TripleA.exe game launcher. -
Latest version 145 ready for download from 1st page 1st post
Faster TripleA 2.6 has much reduced warning errors, get it here;
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releasesIf using faster 2.6 remember to minimize the error box to the taskbar, to stop it it reappearing (this is only a warning error please ignore it)
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MAJOR CHANGES- Gone back to graded Battle Rounds, now Land=7 Sea=5 Air=3, was all 7, these can be changed in Game Options
- Help> Game_Notes contains Game Notes sheet, Prologue sheet, 8 Nation sheets & 14 Manual sheets
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Link to 1941_Global_Command_Decision_Manual v145 (Draft) for those that want a pdf, however it is also contained in game in the Help> Game_Notes
1941_Global_Command_Decision_Manual.pdf.
Link to 1st post that has the download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread -
@thedog So I am reading all this about 1941 GCD and loving it.
But I'm clueless as to how to get this to run. I downloaded the zip file... but then what?
Is this a standalone thing or does/should it run with the triplea software. I have v 2.5.22294
[edit] I installed the new engine v 2.6.14458 - but still no joy in figuring out how to install this 1941 Global Command Decision game. I downloaded the zip file and unpacked it but do not see how to get the triplea engine to "download maps" to this game... I am clearly missing something
Sorry if you guys all know all this and this seems like a stupid question but for years I just use the triplea engine and have never had to instal a game any other way.
Thank you for any advice on how to get this to run.
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@ezgaming
Thanks for the interest in the map. It takes some effort on my part to make it downloadable within the TripleA engine, but for now, it is this just way.Using Windows Explorer navigate to here;
C:\Users\Your PCs Username\Triplea\downloadedMapsor just copy & paste this
C:\Users\%USERNAME%\triplea\downloadedMaps
into Windows Explorer
This is the path to all TripleA maps games.Open the downloaded zip
In it will be a folder called
1941_global_command_decision
Drag and drop this folder into your downloadedMaps folder. Note the folder to drag and drop is called 1941_global_command_decision not global_command_decision-145
Run TripleA and it should appear along with your other map games
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@thedog OK THANK YOU !!! I can't wait to try it !
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@thedog WOW. CALL ME IMPRESSED.
So I moved the unzipped folder to the proper triplea folder (on my Mac this time but I will try PC next) and it worked great.
There was some initial weirdness about planes in Kherson, but other than that it looks like a very well made game!
I already started my first play through vs the AI and so far so good. But it will take some time and numerous play throughs to really get a feel for this (or any) new game.
I remember not wanting to try that alternative universe version of triplea that has the same rules and same participants (Germany, Italy, etc. even the Chinese) but the map was of a different world so to speak. After I tried it earlier this year, however, I grew to really love it because learning a new game is part of the fun. So it seems with this one - but there is SO MUCH to learn lol...
Again, thanks and congrats for making such a great addition !!!
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@ezgaming aka IMPRESSED
Im glad you are off to a good start.
If you find anything not explained/helpful then please say. -
@thedog are you interested in some of the errors/bugs I encountered? So far the game only crashed one time in a way that required returning to a previous save but there were a handful of other errors that allowed play to continue. I’m just wondering if I should document these things to help ?
It’s still mighty impressive tho!!! And I’m enjoying it immensely!
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@ezgaming
First off you must be on the latest version of 2.6 here;
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releasesI have no errors with this version 2.6.14513
and then yes please document your findings.
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As a reminder, there is some documentation in the game;
Help> Game Notes
has the following 24 panels/screens/pages- Game Notes (1 long page)
- Prologue (each player will see at each game start, 1 page)
- Player nation (for each nation, shown pre round 1, in axis then allied order, 8 pages)
- Manual (terse 14 pages)
Also in \triplea\downloadedMaps\1941_global_command_decision\map\doc\images\ is
1941_Global_Command_Decision_Manual.pdfContaining the manuals 14 pages in one pdf.
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@thedog AWESOME!!! Thank you
I’m loving the game. There is so much to this game. Again I congratulate you.
Assuming you’re interested in problems I had: note I’m using the most current triplea engine and still on the Mac:
the game froze up when Italy tried to do an airborne attack on a territory in the Middle East. I saved the game immediately prior so I can recreate it. There is no way past the saved point. If I load the game and let the attack play out the game freezes. If I undo that attack the game is fine.
And the zoom function seems a bit off as it does not usually allow me to zoom out halfway (like 50%). Instead of accepting my zoom out the game takes over and zooms me all the way out and then I struggle a little to get the zoom where I want it
Other than these I’ve not encountered any bugs or issues.
By the way, have you researched the game’s balance? I realize that with most such games the Axis, like real life, are fighting a losing battle and “victory” is usually reaching some victory condition before the inevitable smashing occurs.
Cheers
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@ezgaming
Do you still have the saved game, if so could you post here. You will have to zip it.Zooming is the TripleA engine not our game.
Black Elk and myself are on Windows 10, we have no experience of MACs
Game balance wise, Black Elk & I have spent hours, so many hours game balancing. However, the longer the game goes on, the worse it is for axis. Typically axis need to win by turn 20ish.
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@thedog OK so some developments. First again I want to congratulate you and Black Elk: it's a wonderful new addition.
I have gotten to a point where I have many saved games that lead to large scale (game freeze game crash) failures that I'm not sure where to begin in terms of what would be best to send you. But I am attaching a Germany Turn 4 save - for me the engine locks up after the third battle.
Of course, I'm filtering out the issues that I have experienced for many years in the triplea engine itself on the Mac - specifically the tendency to game freeze if one hits the space bar too quickly during combat results. And also not counting the zoom issue: This issue is just when I try to zoom halfway out - the triplea engine seems to not like that and will freeze for a second or two and then show me the map completely zoomed out. I then can zoom in and it seems stable until I attempt a zoom change again.
All of the large bugs I'm experiencing with your game seem to be during combat (game freezing). I'm guessing that much of this is my fault for pushing the game hard in terms of modifying IPUs and starting bids...
Another issue that is easy to explain and does not need a saved game is that I have found any Axis bids result in a very weird starting map that shows Germany already committing troops to attacking Russia. It's a really weird thing but even giving Germany 10 IPU will result in very strange things. Trying to give Germany 1 extra destroyer can only be done via the game editor and not via a starting bid.
Perhaps I'm breaking things because your game testing never had the wild weird stuff that I am doing, such as a large Italian army in China, and/or other weird and unlikely scenarios.
Anyway I hope it helps !!!
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