Warcraft: War Heroes - Official Thread

[Cernel]

@Frostion Editing the OP and title with the new one, since I understand you changed the game's title?

[Frostion]

Here is another progress update. The fifth of the eight playable races is done. Let me present the Gnomes, their hero Marryk and their arsenal:

Besides several different spells, Marryk can also create a pet Battle-Chicken that can wreak havoc among enemy troops:

Concerning AI and engine errors:
Problem number 1, I am still holding back beta as long as the AI has problems with stacking units at capitals / territories that has connections effected by land territory-canals with unit restrictions. (Also a problem when AI plays Dragon War map)

Problem number 2, the AI does not build factories, even though there are plenty of 2 and 3 PU territories. At some point during game development the AI did build factories, but no longer. I suspect the change came with a new version of prerelease. Don’t know if it is because of an AI change or because factories (now) cost too much, cost non-PU resources or what?
(In relation to this, maybe … I just played an 8 round game of Iron War. During this game the AI did also not buy any factories even though this is something the AI always did some time ago. The issue is map-breaking, since many nations end up with more PU/potential units than they can place with their starting factories. Also factories may be bombed/destroyed, but if AI dont build new ones ... .... Here is the save for v0.2.9 Iron War and TripleA 2.0.18935 2020-5-1-Iron-War.tsvg )

Problem number 3, the engine making errors whenever a player captures an enemy territory and in the process all killed enemy units turn into loot (when killed turns into)… the engine still looks to see if the capturing nation has images of the original enemy units (before they turns into loot / another passive and capturable unit type when killed). This problem can be bypassed by having every player nation have every single enemy unit image in its units own un it directory, even though they may never build those enemy type units. But the workaround would pointlessly increase the map zip size, so I don’t like the idea.

[Cernel]

@Frostion said in Warcraft: War Heroes - Official Thread:

This problem can be bypassed by having every player nation have every single enemy unit image in its units own un it directory, even though they may never build those enemy type units.

Or by having a single instance of those pictures in the units main folder, that will be used by any players lacking the same.

But I agree that it would be preferable, and make more sense, not to display an image a player can never have (as it gets turned into something else immediately as conquered). I guess you'll make a ticket about this in GitHub. While waiting for this fix, you can also use the hack of having fully transparent images.

[Greg Anderson]

@Frostion Wow, your map is really looking good. I was wondering when all eight factions will be finished?

I would also like to know when the map will be released for beta testing? I don't mind the AI not working as I wasn't planning on using it, and instead just control all units at first.

[redrum]

@Frostion I took a quick look at issue #1. The issue is all the air only canals which aren't being properly handled by the AI's territory value calculations when determining where to non-combat move. For example, it thinks the Orc land units can potentially move across the 2 air only connections the next turn (not checking those canals) so values staying in the Orc capital more than moving to the adjacent territories north/south. This just keeps happening turn after turn causing all the Orc units built there to not move. I'll try to take a look at adding some basic logic in to check these canals.

This could be potentially impacting building factories as well since its overvaluing placing units in the Orc capital for example since it thinks there are 2 good adjacent territories to attack from there.

[Frostion]

@Greg-Anderson ... As soon as possible I will keep you updated here on the progress. When the factions are done, I see no reason to hold it back. The map may be a bit rough around the edges, but hopefully beta testing and feedback can help smooth the map.

@redrum This is great news. I hope it is not a too complicated thing to adjust the AI to comprehend. But I guess that in theory, other maps might also use a land canal or two. Maybe @Cernel already has it implemented in his own project?

[Frostion]

So the 6th of the 8 races are done …

Here is the Night Elves and their heroine Ayanna

Note: The Ceremonial-Fire is a unit that after placed (at the end of the player round) generates 3 Wisp units, and the fire gives support to elven units for an entire round, until the night elves next turn, when the fire is removed from map. But the 3 Wisps remain.

The Ceremonial-Fire is the only unit of Elves that costs oil.

It took me some time to figure out what elves could possibly use collected oil for. They don’t strike me as the types who would burn black smoking sticky polluting oil for anything. They strike me more as tree hugging vegetarians

[Cernel]

@Frostion Is the fort an upgrade of guard-tower? If so, it would feel strange to go from stone to wood. Also it looks strange that the garrison is a wooden construct recoulized stone-like. How about omitting the garrison and reclassifying the remaing three as Fort->Tower->Castle (the Tower would be the current Guard-Tower).

I suppose having 5 (!) different siege engines may make for an interest sieging system.

[Frostion]

PS: I forgot to mention that Ayanna the Hunter of course has a pet hunting dog

@Cernel Yes there is a starting factory, the Guard Tower, and then the other buildings are upgrades. And yes it is a bit strange to have a stone construction be upgraded to a wooden construction. When I started making the unit graphics, it was the intention that the Guard Tower was to be an un-upgradable supporting building, separate from a three-step factory concept (Fort -> Garrison -> Castle).

But as development of the map progressed, I moved away from the two-types of building approach. Now it is a much simpler four-step factory concept, with the four factories having Wall Archers (AA fire) comparable to their size.

The Wall Archers (AA fire) are so effective/unit killing that they are the reason for players to either bring along siege weapons to suppress the Wall Archers, or alternatively bombard and destroy (some buildings only disable) the Wall Archers … so that the territory can be seized without many casualties.

Maybe the concept will change if we find a better and more fitting concept in regards to siege warefare.

[Frostion]

Yet another race is done. The horrific Undead, also known as the Forsaken:

Sevis the Warlock of course has the pleasure of commanding his very own summoned Imps:

And when Sevis has reached a certain level, he may also command a powerful Doomguard! :

(These summoned units cannot, like the pet Battle Chicken and the pet Mastiff, venture off on their own. They are bound to follow their master. Though they can attack neighboring territories without their master's participation.)

[Greg Anderson]

@Frostion Good job! I've never been so eager to play a tripleA map as I am with this one.

[Michael Hoover]

@Frostion Just read through this whole thread and holy crap this is a magnum opus!
I really like the whole backpack/inventory idea and would love a little insider scoop on how you are pulling that off :astonished_face:

Just wanted to point out on the Arthur page shouldn't the skill be spelled "Noble" instead of "Nobel"? (unless I am misunderstanding the skill...)

[Frostion]

@Michael-Hoover Yes, it should be "Noble" instead of "Nobel". I will fix this ASAP.

I just need to finish the last race, the trolls, then I will upload it for testing in the "experimental" category. It is quite playable now, but has a few issues (both AI and engine) that I hope will be clear for players and developers to see, so that we may work them out.

There are errors poping up now and then, but they mostly do not crash the game.

The item system is quite complex, but all comes down to conditions and triggers. 1: a player captures and therefore own a special item on the map. 2: Trigger removes this item from the map and places the item (another unit type, but still the item) in the backpack, mostly for visual sake + activates the items property, if needed.

The most simple items just generates resources. Some items unlocks unit support. Some items modify the Hero unit attributes by adding/modify stuff, like isMarine if the "Leatherneck" is picked up. Some items are very complex, and I think the most complex is the "Fishing Pole".

So stay tuned and keep am eye out for misspellings

[Greg Anderson]

@Frostion A complex fishing pole? :grinning_squinting_face:

I'm eager to see what the units of the last race will look like. I've seen many troll units before so I am eager to see what you will create.

I'll let you know if I spot any errors once you release the map. :thumbs_up:

[Greg Anderson]

@Frostion I was just wondering, is there a reason why some units have a plural name even though they are a single unit? For example, shouldn't the Footmen unit be spelled Footman?

It doesn't change much, but I just wanted to point out a potential typo. :smiling_face:

[prastle]

@Greg-Anderson It is a common typo in TripleA that is not really a "Typo." A unit is meant to represent a squadron or division generally thus comprising a few unite not a single unit.

[Greg Anderson]

@prastle Ah okay, very logical. It wouldn't make much sense to have a unit represent just one unit.

[Greg Anderson]

@Frostion How's work on your map going? Have you experienced more bugs?

Anyway, good job on this map! I don't think I would have been able to continue making a map for over a year.

[Frostion]

Trolls are done! Map will be downloadable soon I will alert whendownload seems to work.

But mind you that there are still bugs! I have not been past round 7 without it crashing

… and yes, some unit pictures are meant to represent a group of individuals, like the Footmen, while others are meant to be special individual characters, like heroes, pets, special supporting characters, and like the Witch-Doctor below. They then have a low transport cost of 1, just like the Hero. So a Hero might fly in a hot air balloon, on a beast or airship alone or with a couple of special single individuals, but not with an army of Footmen or Calvary

[Greg Anderson]

@Frostion Great work!

Yeah, it would be illogical for a hero to fly in a hot air balloon with an entire army.

When you mentioned that you couldn't get past round 7 without the map crashing, did you mean using the AI or without AI? As I don't plan on really using the AI, I don't mind if it is still buggy. Your maps are so cool that I love just controlling all the factions.