World of War Heroes – Official Thread

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    Would multiplying everything by 3 work ? Or would that cause issues elsewhere ?

  • Admin

    @beelee Potentially. The AI would then at least consider buying factories but I'll leave that up to @Frostion and whether that makes sense for this map.

  • Moderators

    @redrum said in World of War Heroes – Official Thread:

    @Frostion Just took a look at it. The reason the AI never buys Guard-Tower or Watch-Tower is that right now it only considers buying factories in territories with at least 3 production (sometimes 2 production if certain criteria are met like it can't spend PUs on anything else). Since every territory on this map has only 1 production it will currently never buy any factories.

    We'd have to think about how to expand the AI to handle the factories on this map without negatively impacting other maps if you want to stick with all territories being 1 production.

    I already said so years ago, but I still think the AI should not the based on fixed numerical values, that don't really mean anything on their own. For example, I could take "World War II Revised" and make a mod in which:

    • Each territory has a production value 10 times the original.
    • Each player starts with 10 times as many PUs.
    • All the units numbers in each territory in the starting setup are multiplied by 10, except factory and aaGun units.
    • Factory costs 150 PUs.
    • AaGun costs 50 PUs.
    • I tell in notes that you can place up to 10 units per zone with bid resources.

    This mod of Revised would play very close to the original, except the fact that you would have less relative TUV destruction, due to the much reduced impact of minimals (like minimum 1 unit to take a territory or minimum 1 unit to block infinite units), some more strategic freedom and some less dice influence (also reducing the advantage for whoever starts bidding first), but placing a factory in a value 10 territory would be about the same as (read as crazy as) placing it in a value 1 territory in the original, condemning all those AI checks based on absolute values (there would be simply no territories of value in between of 0 and 10).

  • Admin

    OK. Thanks for looking into it.

    But why does player "Nature" need to have unit “Khorman”? It is a Dwarven Hero unit that Nature should not have access to? I have seen similar errors, where for example the engine wants Undead to have image of for example Human Hero unit. Does every player need image of every single unit type in the game?

    In regards to the AI building factories, I actually thought the motivation was based on distance from battle fields, like if the AI could see that it had to walk like 6 territories to meet the enemy (or 3 turns with 2 movers), then AI would like to build closer to the enemy. Could the AI logic not benefit from something like this?

  • Admin

    @Frostion Not sure about the images, I'll have to take a closer look.

    The AI does check distance from the enemy but it has a hard limit right not where it won't even consider any 1 production territories. The reason for that is that on pretty much all existing maps, you never want to build a factory on 1 production territories and rarely on 2 production territories (so this is essentially an assumption that is invalid for this map). The way the AI works around buying factories is essentially like this (ignoring sea purchases for now):

    1. Buy defenders to hold factories
    2. Buy land units in factories reasonably close the the enemy (has a bunch of calculations to determine distance and whether to buy low/high movement units)
    3. Buy factory in 3 or more production territories reasonably close to the enemy
    4. Try to spend remaining PUs on land units in factories further from the enemy not used in 1 & 2
    5. Buy factory in 2 production territories as couldn't spend PUs on anything else

    @Cernel Ideally, you are correct. The AI shouldn't hard code to fixed values but given that it works on almost all existing maps and is much simpler to code that is why it was done that way. There are very few existing maps where you would ever place a factory in a 1 production territory (given that placement is limited by territory production). But the AI should instead look at say average territory production values instead of having a hard limit (if all territories are 1 production and factories are cheap then be willing to build anywhere). Your example is a bit different and even more extreme but the AI would probably do ok (definitely better than it would on this map with all 1 prod territories). The reason is the AI only tries to build a factory if it thinks it needs one after using its existing factories that are reasonably close to the enemy so the only thing that would change is it would be willing to buy a factory in territories that might not be worth it since you could argue it shouldn't build in a 10 prod territory in your example (only in maybe 20 or more prod territories).

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