AI Development Discussion and Feedback

redrum

@Sculpt Responses:

1.9.0.0.13066 is the latest stable release. There have been some fixes and improvements since then which can be tested in the latest pre-release found here: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases. I recommend using the latest pre-release if you can so that you get all the latest changes but feedback on either release is still useful.
Great to hear. There are many great maps that you can download and play with TripleA. I'm glad to have AI feedback on any maps which you are playing.

Cernel

Playing "A Song of Ice and Fire" with all players assigned to HardAI the game crashed on round 16 at the start of the Combat Move phase of FreeCities.

You can find the link to download the map here:
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/The-Game-of-Thrones-map-bug-tp7587435p7587606.html

You can play this map with TripleA 1.8.0.9, but only if unzipped and with a case insensitive system.

Savegame:
BugReportCernel_A Song of Ice and Fire_1.8.0.9_20190809_01.tsvg

Console:

triplea.engine.version.bin:1.8.0.9
WARNING [Triplea start thread] ProAI ->       7-MartellCombatMove: Greenstone, remainingUnitsToLoad=[HorseArcher owned by Martell]
WARNING [Triplea start thread] ProAI ->       7-MartellCombatMove: Greenstone, remainingUnitsToLoad=[HorseArcher owned by Martell]
WARNING [Triplea start thread] ProAI ->       9-MartellCombatMove: Stonehelm, remainingUnitsToLoad=[HorseArcher owned by Martell]
WARNING [Triplea start thread] ProAI ->       9-MartellCombatMove: Stonehelm, remainingUnitsToLoad=[HorseArcher owned by Martell]
WARNING [Triplea start thread] ProAI ->       11-MartellCombatMove: The Disputed Lands, remainingUnitsToLoad=[HorseArcher owned by Martell]
WARNING [Triplea start thread] ProAI ->       11-MartellCombatMove: The Disputed Lands, remainingUnitsToLoad=[HorseArcher owned by Martell]
WARNING [Triplea start thread] ProAI ->       12-MartellCombatMove: Mistwood, remainingUnitsToLoad=[HorseArcher owned by Martell]
WARNING [Triplea start thread] ProAI ->       14-MartellNonCombatMove: Mistwood, remainingUnitsToLoad=[HorseArcher owned by Martell]
WARNING [Triplea start thread] ProAI ->       14-MartellNonCombatMove: Mistwood, remainingUnitsToLoad=[HorseArcher owned by Martell]
Exception in thread "Triplea start thread" java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Comparison method violates its general contract!
	at java.util.TimSort.mergeHi(Unknown Source)
	at java.util.TimSort.mergeAt(Unknown Source)
	at java.util.TimSort.mergeForceCollapse(Unknown Source)
	at java.util.TimSort.sort(Unknown Source)
	at java.util.Arrays.sort(Unknown Source)
	at java.util.List.sort(Unknown Source)
	at java.util.Collections.sort(Unknown Source)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.proAI.util.ProAttackOptionsUtils.sortUnitNeededOptionsThenAttack(ProAttackOptionsUtils.java:149)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.proAI.ProCombatMoveAI.tryToAttackTerritories(ProCombatMoveAI.java:1003)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.proAI.ProCombatMoveAI.determineTerritoriesToAttack(ProCombatMoveAI.java:335)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.proAI.ProCombatMoveAI.doCombatMove(ProCombatMoveAI.java:139)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.proAI.ProAI.move(ProAI.java:165)
	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.AbstractAI.start(AbstractAI.java:436)
	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.waitForPlayerToFinishStep(ServerGame.java:564)
	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.runStep(ServerGame.java:458)
	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.startGame(ServerGame.java:281)
	at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInNewThread(LocalLauncher.java:74)
	at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.AbstractLauncher$1.run(AbstractLauncher.java:47)
	at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

redrum

@Cernel I'm fairly certain that issue was fixed in 1.9. Once I update the map to 1.9 then we can try to reproduce it.

ff03k64

I was just playing Middle Earth on the latest AAA version. It seemed like the hard Evil AI wasn't quite aggressive enough. Other than that, they seemed to play very well, so thanks for all the hard work!

beelee

Idk if it's been 8 weeks or not or if this is even the right thread but for some reason I just ... well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGu6v2OjW8s

Scorpions comes up next just fyi

ahh yea wrong place please move

https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/381/favorite-playlists-songs-while-vanquishing-foes

ff03k64

Hard AI didn't seem to handle Strategic bombing very well. Was playing one of the star wars galactic war maps. First couple of times it sent several bombers in to bomb, but after I started to defend against it, it would send in 1 or 2 bombers when i had 4 fighters and AA in the area and just chewed them up. It was almost as if the AI didn't consider the fighters when it made it's calculations on if it would be worthwhile to do the bombing run.

Captain Crunch

@ff03k64 hmmmm was the AI winning comfortably at that point? Like they had Bombers to spare?

ff03k64

No, when it started getting bad it was pretty even. It continued for several turns as they were falling behind.

redrum

@ff03k64 Do you have a save game showing the poor SBR decisions?

ff03k64

@redrum starwarsforupload.tsvg

Let me know if that worked.

redrum

@ff03k64 Ah I see. In the current stable release (1.9.0.0.13066), the AI doesn't consider interceptors. Logic to handle this has already been added to the latest pre-release to avoid this exact problem you are seeing. You can try out the latest pre-release here or once we release the next stable release it should be fixed: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases

ff03k64

@redrum I think i will stick to the stable. I want to try to make a map myself, so i would rather not work with the pre-releases and their possible bugs at this point.

redrum

@ff03k64 Ok. You can also have multiple versions (say stable and pre-release) installed at the same time. You just need to make sure to pick a different install folder location when running the installer.

ff03k64

@redrum Oh yeah, I remember that from when I had like 1.3 and 1.4 at the same time. Is there a changelog for the pre-release?

redrum

@ff03k64 Not yet. We usually publish a consumable changelog when we release a stable. You can see the changelogs here but for the pre-releaes is just points to the PRs since the last stable which is quite a lot https://triplea-game.org/release_notes/

pact_of_plastic

My reoccurring concerns and applause for AI have consistently been the following:

1: Rather foolish or completely suicidal Allied placement and/or movement of transports while under heavy pressure. The poor/suicidal choices seem to escalate the more AI struggles. (The worst I've seen was in Pact of Steel China added WWII V3 where AI placed 4 undefended transports in range of an enemy sub having no chance of being neutralized before the sub could attack (and no apparent better option for the sub or forseen means of defense to arrive before the sub could attack).
2: in some maps, poor analytical choices in regards to how much or if at all to repair an industrial complex. I've mostly not kept track of which maps/versions apply to repair decision quality (however the map Pact of Steel China added WWII V3 seemed to make decent decisions regarding repair or lack of repair of an industrial complex [unlike most other maps] since they often just repair max damage despite the repair being either futile or a poor decision).

The poor placement/use of transports is by far #1 crippling the AI. I've noticed this issue often arises when France/Western Europe are well defended, Algeria isn't a good option and the allies will send undefended transports to attack Norway or other northern territories. I haven't read this whole thread and offer apology if this post is redundant as well as my lack of details regarding other maps. I play alot of various maps vs AI and have noticed these general patterns in various maps though have finally noticed a control group where more extreme aspects of both issues (good and bad) can be found in this single game attached (the map being Pact of Steel V3 China added) and hope the observation helps to either embrace and/or correct any scripts and apply changes to maps in general.

list itemuse bad placement rd 4.tsvg

redrum

@pact_of_plastic Thanks for the feedback and save game. Here are some thoughts:

So the issue here is that the AI bought 4 transports and incorrectly anticipated killing the japanese sub off Alaska (this is essentially the AI not fully understanding v3 sub rules and that they can submerge before battle). Then after the japanese sub doesn't die, it has no safe place to put them since the US east coast is also exposed. So no real good option.
Yeah, the AI repair logic is very basic and essentially usually just repairs the full amount. This is something that just needs improved.

There are probably other cases of poor transport decisions but this one in particular is actually just a misunderstanding of v3 sub rules. If you have other save games showing examples please add them here.

redrum

@pact_of_plastic PR to fix issue #1: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/5492

Once that is merged, you can test with the latest pre-release but beware its not save game compatible with the current stable release.

pact_of_plastic

@redrum, @ron-murhammer

Thanks for the timely reply and work on the issue fix. I look forward to it's full implementation and being able to save games with the fix in effect.

Here is another game where the US could have made a better decision. It seems the US took a VC or possibly national objectives as priority, despite projection of power and ojbectives being disabled. It's pretty clear the US xport should have taken undefended Australia instead of attacking a defended Borneo, and probably should have had plans to follow up by attacking undefended New Guinea, or attempting to take Borneo or East Indies. If not that strategy, the US could have sent in a fighter to aid the 2 infantry, consider a bombard in addition to the attack, as well and in turn protect it's xport with the rest of it's navy from the Japanese sub and it probably would have won the Borneo battle with New Guinea and Australia to follow up on easily. I understand the US was probably considering heading toward UK and didn't want to waste the movement, however in rd 6, they actually attempted an attack on Japan instead and they very well may have won that if they sent more power to Borneo and defended the xport in rd 4. It just seems they should have dealt with the whole situation a bit better. The US often bounces around and lacks focus. UK does it too and I'm sure it's hard as hell to script but in the end if they stayed focused a bit more they'd generally be more effective at least vs my play style. I really appreciate all the work you guys put into this game. Thanks a ton! us bad decision.tsvg

@ron-murhammer

redrum

@pact_of_plastic Definitely an interesting choice by the US in this case. There are a few separate areas here around attacking Borneo vs Australia:

The AI sees being in the Borneo sea zone as more strategic than down by Australia so that it has more options the following turn
Borneo is worth more than Australia (4 > 3)
AI believes its odds on Borneo are fairly good when it uses its cruiser to bombard

Now there is a bug where the AI aborts bombarding for v3 transport rules (transports having no casualty/defense) if enemy ships are within range. So the AI expects to attack borneo with 2 inf and bombard with the cruiser but the bug cancels the bombard leaving the odd behavior. I've put a PR to fix this: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/5531

Ideally the AI would also use its fighter but this is more complex as the AI is overly conservative with landing on carriers and doesn't commit to moving its carrier til NCM so won't use the fighter since its can't guarantee its safe landing.

I think most human players go for Australia but Borneo with 2 inf, 1 fighter, and cruiser bombard is probably equal choice. The bombard bug will be fixed in the next release. The air is a much more complex problem is solve.