Total World War: December 1941 3.0.0.6
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i dont understand how the negative support with surface fleet attribute works. does that apply to any other ship? so a sub plus destroyer would now have a cumulative defense of 1 or sub plus transport would now be negative or just 0 i suppose?
doesn't really seem like a sub should make other ships weaker on defense, at least to me. i understand the fodder issue but frankly, the way things are now if you really want fodder you can still do it with transports cant you? and DD's at 1 pu more seems like there would be no reason to include subs in any fleet which doesn't seem very realistic either.
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@ubernaut No... if you pair Subs with any other surface vessel... the Subs receives -2 to its defense.
So if 1 Sub and 1 Destroyer (of the same nation or alliance) share a sea zone... and that sea zone is attacked... the Destroyer would still defend at 3... however the Sub would have a defense of 0 (technically 1 Def- 2 fleet penalty = -1). So essentially Subs are rendered useless defensively until you get Advanced Subs.
This has been done to reduce the ability of a player to create a fleet with massed Subs to use as defensive cover as had been seen in earlier versions of TWW. Since Subs are now elusive "creatures" who's strength is meant to lie in their ability to travel undetected and attack at will... I really wanted to make them useful as an offensive and harrassment unit and near worthless as a defender. This was also done because of the changes where they can submerge at will and can no longer be blocked... I was trying to make a unit with advantages and drawbacks.
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@Hepps what about adding a weak DC to BB and CR?
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So after some discussion here would be the changes for v3.0.0.3:
- Update ImprovedDestroyer tech from DepthCharge 2 (+1) to 3 (+2)
- Update HeavyDestroyer unit from DepthCharge 3 to 4
- Update ImprovedStratBomber tech from DepthCharge 2 (+1) to 3 (+2)
- Update HeavyStratBomber unit from DepthCharge 3 to 4
- Update Sub unit attack from 4 to 3 (3/1/2)
- Update ImprovedSub tech from +1 attack (5/1/2) to +1 attack/defense (4/2/2)
- Update AdvancedSub unit from 6/3/2 to 6/4/2
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question about the improved special warfare advancement the manual says "+1 Att.for Alpine (combat paratroop)."
What exactly does that mean? i'm assuming that like the other upgrades given with this advancement that it provides an additional attack bonus for Alpine inf but it seems to also enable Alpine troops to get Air-dropped in the attack phase, does the bonus apply to situations regardless of terrain or does this apply only to hills/mountians?
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@ubernaut Yes, it increases their base attack by 1 (so all terrain). And it allows them to be paradropped into combat.
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@redrum got it, thanks again for clarifying
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@ubernaut said in Total World War: December 1941 3.0.0.3:
@Hepps what about adding a weak DC to BB and CR?
There had been a fair ammount of discussion related to this. My reservations about doing this is based on the desire to have each unit have a special role within the game. Creating this mechanic in the BB & CR will reduce the significance of the DD role. Also I feel as though the BB & CR already have substantial value with their assigned roles.
But as with most things... no idea is ever truly shelved.
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@Hepps thought about that but given the notion that we know the DC is already a bit weak adding a 1 DC to them seems somewhat more realistic a correction than a negative defense penalty. Just my 2¢ i know you all have thought a lot more about this than i have.
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@ubernaut I get what you are saying... but the 2 things are not really directly comparable...
By using the negative support to Subs... you are always penalized when they are defending fleets with them (Subs) included. Yet not so if you have just a Sub flotilla.
Whereas under your suggestion BB & CR simply become much more effective against Subs... regardless of how they are positioned.
I want Sub hunting to be difficult. The system and power ratings are designed to make Subs less effective as defensive unit. Which I feel is truer to how they were as units during WWII. Making more units capable of hitting them with DC attacks does not achieve a better balance IMO.
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@Hepps well sub hunting at 8% success seems about right for capital ships, while subs having 0 value in large defensive fleet clashes doesn't really seem right. i think saying that a 1/12 DC hit per capital ship makes them much more effective is a bit of an exaggeration, destroyers are pretty infective at that same rate currently.
if BB and transport attacks a BB + sub the transport fleet has advantage under the current maths, that seems really odd to me.i guess they are sort of tied but that still seems odd to me, that's what i get for editing a reply.
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@ubernaut Remember... the negative support mechnism is being used as a way to circumvent some of the engine limitations... as soon as you allow Subs to defend when paired with fleets... their defensive rolls become "first strike" shots... giving the defender a huge advantage in the grand scheme of things when you mass Subs with a major fleet.
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@Hepps maybe i don't fully understand DC rules, don't DC hits circumvent normal first strike rules?
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@ubernaut No. Sub First strike shots take presidence over other AA type shots... but that really isn't what I am referring to.
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@Hepps here's a thought (sorry if it's already been considered) instead of the negative defense bonus what if mixed fleet just negates sneak attack?
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@ubernaut Would be awesome.
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@Hepps just to be more specific meaning only on defense the way the current penalty works.
