Improving AI

Captain Crunch

@alkexr in math, "adding" means like 1+1+1 = 3 ...

so the "Learning AI" would ADD data as more matches are played. The AI would be improved even after JUST 1 MATCH!

I didn't say anything about limiting the AI to only playing 1 match but I do realize this requires people who understand math or programming so let's wait for some informed and serious replies

alkexr

@Captain-Crunch said in Improving AI:

I didn't say anything about limiting the AI to only playing 1 match but I do realize this requires people who understand math or programming so let's wait for some informed and serious replies

Why did our conversation get out of control so quickly? Is it that you had a great idea, and I didn't like it? Is that a reason for claiming stuff about my math skill? What do you think you will achieve with that? I'm still confident in both my math and programming skills, and you saying things about it without even looking certainly won't change anything about that.

Captain Crunch

@alkexr whoa dude calm down its just an internet convo. No reason to be so mad lool

seriously though, maybe it's because English isn't your first language that made you make all those confusing posts but I think the topic is just too technical so maybe wait for more posts before trying to reply

alkexr

@Schulz said in Improving AI:

Triplea would have enogh active player if AI was more challenging. Decent AI is must for gaining enough players for almost all games (maybe except sandbox ones).

First, sorry for hijacking your thread...

You might have a point here. But then we are trapped in the cycle of not having enough players, because not having good AI, because not having enough players, because... you see where this goes.

If you ask me, getting more active players would actually be easier than significantly improving AI. Most of the TripleA playerbase is still former A&A players (as far as I can tell), while most new maps aren't related to WW2 and don't appeal to this part of the playerbase. I think players who would be interested in these alternative maps just haven't found TripleA yet. But then, this woulnd't help with getting more players for the most played maps.

alkexr

@Captain-Crunch Maybe I should use shorter sentences and less of all that weird convoluted grammar we're being taught here in English classes, shouldn't I?

Captain Crunch

@alkexr so just to be clear ... both alkexr and Schulz are calling this AI bad when I expressly stated from the very start that this AI is very very very tough and very very much improved!

It could just use my "Learning AI" idea to be even better!

alkexr

@Captain-Crunch Did I call this AI bad?

Captain Crunch

@alkexr

@alkexr said in Improving AI:

But then we are trapped in the cycle of not having enough players, because not having good AI

this dude is classic

Hepps

Outside of the intricacies of the debate... I think the one real question becomes how feasible is any of this with only 1 guy working on the AI at his leisure. The leaps and bounds that have already been achieved seem mind boggling to me for a single guy trying to patch together improvements on his own in his spare time.

Any grandiose plans we might have would likely need more resources to be achievable.

alkexr

@Captain-Crunch "But then we are trapped in the cycle of not having enough players, because not having good AI" - I was following up on his point.

alkexr

Were all of my posts in this thread so bad as to deserve a downvote, whoever it was?

Captain Crunch

@Hepps ya I know I can't believe how tough this AI has gotten from just 1 dev working on it (redrum) despite the criticism from these other 2 lol

But I already said I would wait for more of the priorities for this game to be finished and fixed before I really ask for someone to look into my very easy idea on how to improve the Ai by "learning" from an implemented "WinnersCapturedTerritories" saved file that would help the AI better decide where to attack

A perfect example would be: on WWIIClassic map ...

let's say the AI wants to attack Western Europe or Southern Europe BUT THE TUV and Battle Calculator show that both battles are equal in gain and cost ... so perhaps the AI would use the "WinnersCapturedTerritories" file and see that past winners more often captured Southern Europe over Western Europe and thus you have data that helped the AI choose its target and should therefore be a better decision (the majority of the time)

Hepps

@Captain-Crunch Yup. As a complete layman... my comment was really driven to point out that whatever suggestions we have are likely determined by what our development "team" can commit.

Captain Crunch

@Hepps rofl and by "team" you mean redrum!!

Ya maybe this game needs more of a player base or devs but it still does not take away from the eliteness of this real-time-strategy game!

Captain Crunch

@alkexr ya too bad we can't see who gives down votes eh rofl

Myself I give down votes to trolls hehe. Oh and please stop private messaging me

alkexr

@Hepps I ask for moderator help. I failed at handling this situation.

Hepps

@alkexr I don't think moderation is necessary. Active discussion is to be applauded! Opposing views (within reason) are something to celebrate and are often the cornerstone of great leaps forward in thinking.

Don't let down votes dissuade you from you views. Constructive input to any conversation is the key to any lively discussion.

Sometimes the "lost in translation" factor of using expressly the written word can cause misunderstandings (not to mention when people are trying to express their thoughts in a tongue that is not their native tongue). Not something to loose any sleep over.

alkexr

@Hepps No, that's not what I'm talking about. I don't think Captain Crunch has any respect for me. Without respect there is no discussion, just hurling words at each other. He went all personal against me (said not very nice things about my skills, called me a troll, accused me of downplaying the work of redrum etc.). I conceded to him, multiple times, although I was angry. I thought that would make him stop. It didn't. I pointed these things out to him. That didn't make him stop either. These things together aren't creating a welcoming atmosphere for discussion, creativity, nor for me. Just because I don't respond in kind, doesn't mean I don't feel in kind, if that makes sense. What did I do wrong to let things get so much out of control?

Hepps

@alkexr Nothing. As near as I can tell you have been a prefect gentlemen. What I am saying is don't worry about the content or nature of the criticism. Nothing that has gone on in this thread is over the line.

All I am saying is that if you are going to discuss your opinions openly in a blind forum, you need to take the criticism with more than just a grain of salt. Anonymity makes even the most cowardly brave.

Unfortunately, in this situation other than some mild derogatory statements... there is nothing here to warrant any kind of intervention.

alkexr

@Hepps Unfortunately, this is not the first case I try to avoid a fight against someone like this. The "unfortunately" about this is that I have largely the same experience. My attempts of de-escalation, concessions, are just percieved as weakness, and end up further provoking them. When he said I had no grasp on maths my first thought was to tell him that I originally set out to be a mathemathics researcher, and studied 4 years of mathemathics in university (which I did). I thought that would have just been arrogance, but in retrospect, that seems like the better choice, as much as I don't like that sort of conversation. That would still have been better than what ended up happening. Or how do you think I should deal with this next time? (Assuming it's not obvious right from the first post that I should just ignore it entirely. This one started as a valid conversation.)