Screen centering/cycling around map UI idea
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@LaFayette
I have now been playing with the unit scroller on a few maps. It works pretty well and is a nice addition that heightens the quality of game play if you ask me. A game that potentially has the players manage hundreds of units really needs this new feature.I have also seen some things that I think can be improved:
The image icons are OK but could be better (I think I made a few of them
) I have made a new set of icons that might improve the “uniformity” of the images. I replaced the highlight lamp image with a sun/lightsource, so that the sun can really shine on the player units when player wants to find them 
These images are also all made with a thin dark shadow so that the images might work with both white/bright UI and grey/dark UI.I also made a “wake up” image that could be used to wake up sleeping territories. I really think this is needed. It would be a good way to let the player “reset” all sleeping units and do a new scroll through them to see if they still are to sleep.
Comparison: Old icons have trouble with bright UI, new might work?
Here is the zip with the icons - I hope they can be used : ICONS-V2.zip
Map maker of: Star Wars: Galactic War + Star Wars: Tatooine War + Caribbean Trade War + Dragon War + Age of Tribes + Star Trek: Dilithium War + Iron War + Iron War: Europe + Warcraft: War Heroes
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I think the difference between the checkmark and the moon needs to be clarified. Or at least can someone clarify it to me?
@Frostion Is your wake up only for the units put to sleep or also for the checkmarked ones?
Anyways, a wake all is due. Nothing of this feature should be irreversible. Maybe sleep and wake all can be represented, respectively, with a closed eye and an open eye.
I don't think the sun is very intuitive for highlighting units that haven't moved, and it might be seen as the wake all button, being substantially the opposite of the moon symbol.
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Maybe off topic, but the new "Flag Display Mode" doesn't show what is the current setting. It would be better if pointing it out like the "Unit Size" one (or just having a "Show Units Flags" checkmark for the small ones, dropping the large option (that it is also not very well named, as it actually shows the normal flags, not the large ones, but I see this is fine on the users side)).
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@Cernel
This is how I understand it:Check: "Yes, I have looked at this unit and I am fine with where it is...for now. So don't bother me with showing this unit as unmoved during this turn. Let's just look at / scroll through the other unmoved units. But I would like to be reminded about this unit during next turn." (In some games, this would be called "skip")
Sleep: "This unit is exactly where it needs to be. It can sit here indefinitely and I do not need to be reminded about it ever again. If I ever need it moved, I will come back to it myself."
I would think a wake-up could maybe "reactivate" all sleeping units + checked/skiped unit. It would be nice if a player could re-set every unit that has not moved to a state where it can be identified as movable.
Like if you have hundreds of units to go through, and you Check a few, Sleep a few and then suddenly "No, no ... I think that I chose a wrong and bad plan. I want to redo all my unit commands." Then it would be nice if all sleeping and skiped units could be reactivated.
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@Frostion Well, I can understand in some games you have a number of islands with 1 dude in it remaining there indefinitely, but this sleep thing seems too strong to me (also a moon makes me think of something that will last for the turn, not like perennial night). For skip/sleep I would rather go with them lasting, respectively, for the whole phase and for the whole turn (so, you skip the units you plan to move during non combat movement and sleep the units you plan to leave there for the turn).
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Anyways, I might be slow, but I assure you I've read the tooltips multiple times couldn't guess what was the difference between skip and sleep. So maybe that is something that needs to be made more understandable.
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@Cernel Generally the way @Frostion explains the functions are how they work for most other games. Generally you either want to "ignore a unit for this turn" or "ignore a unit forever". These functions would mostly be used during NCM to ensure you didn't forget to move any units. Whether the "check" should reset at the end of each phase or the end of the turn I think could be debated but turn is probably the most natural and aligns with how most other TBS games work.
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Re: Shadows/Icons on Light vs Dark Background
This was a concern I had been wondering about. I was thinking a next feature improvement would be to include a set of graphics for dark backgrounds and we would swap the images when a player changes their Look and Feel to a dark or light background.
The dark shadows is a good idea that could make that feature less needed or not needed at all.
Re: Updated Images
@Frostion you can upload new images directly if you'd like "upload files" button: https://github.com/triplea-game/assets/tree/master/game_headed_assets/unit_scroller
I think I'm happy updating the images otherwise, just noticed that you did provide a Zip file with them, thank you.
Re: Skip vs Sleep
@Cernel there are some units where they are endless skipped. The US infantry on Midway and AA guns in USA on WWII revised are units that I sleep. The German AA gun is another that gets sleeped as well. Skip I've often used for planes, a bomber that has landed but still has movement left for example. Sometimes instead of 'sleeping' I'll skip units and on the third turn skipping them, they'll be sleeped.
Re: Wake-All
That is a feature that does seem logical. I'm only a bit concerned that players will become 'worried' about the sleeping units and revisit their decision every turn. It can be 30 minutes or an hour on a multiplayer game to cycle back to the same player turn, it can be pretty easy to reconsider decisions made.
I think for now the intent is that sleep should be a "you are sure you want to do this" kind of action. For the misclick case, clicking a unit should probably wake them back up.
I am a bit on the fence:
- Civ did not provide a wake-all
- Having a wake-all could encourage "sleep-abuse" where units are slept instead of being skipped for the one or two turns. (But again, who is to say that is feature-abuse vs using it in a way that fits a player better).
- Maybe a wake-all but with a confirmation dialog: "Are you sure you want to wake-all?" to add some friction to the process.
Re: Centering and Top Row
The top row of the unit scroller is not super cohesive. I've been wondering if maybe the unit image itself should serve as the centering button. If it could be made to look clickable, then we'd be saving on screen real-estate.
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@redrum I've no doubt the skip should reset end phase, not end turn.
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@redrum , @Cernel Currently it's end-phase, I'd agree it should be that way. Part of the goal is so you can always zero out the units left to move on each phase and then trust when you get the "No more units left to move pop-up", that you can confidently end the current phase. Before the unit scroller, on live games I would typically spend a few minutes checking the entire map to be sure nothing was left to move, the pop-up is meant to help automate that and hopefully save time and reduce 'forgot-to-move-unit' mistakes.
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@Frostion said in Screen centering/cycling around map UI idea:
@LaFayette
I have now been playing with the unit scroller on a few maps. It works pretty well and is a nice addition that heightens the quality of game play if you ask me. A game that potentially has the players manage hundreds of units really needs this new feature.I have also seen some things that I think can be improved:
The image icons are OK but could be better (I think I made a few of them
) I have made a new set of icons that might improve the “uniformity” of the images. I replaced the highlight lamp image with a sun/lightsource, so that the sun can really shine on the player units when player wants to find them These images are also all made with a thin dark shadow so that the images might work with both white/bright UI and grey/dark UI.I also made a “wake up” image that could be used to wake up sleeping territories. I really think this is needed. It would be a good way to let the player “reset” all sleeping units and do a new scroll through them to see if they still are to sleep.
Comparison: Old icons have trouble with bright UI, new might work?
Here is the zip with the icons - I hope they can be used : ICONS-V2.zip
Now that we clarified that means "standing indefinitely", I suggest changing the "moon-zzz" symbol with a "stop-hand" symbol (assuming adopting these proposals, I could try to do it if @Frostion tells exactly what are the settings he used for drawing those pictures; otherwise he would need to do it, in case it is wanted, to keep all images coherent).
Example (free for personal use only):
https://flyclipart.com/download-stop-hand-sign-clipart-signage-clip-art-and-sign-clipart-502467 -
I'd opt for an entrenchment tool as a symbol for the 'sentry' or 'sleep'. (really sleep, as 'sentry' in civ had specific functionality which we do not have). I'm not sure though if an entrenchment tool would be universally well recognized and/or confused as having a defensive benefit.
The problem I'd draw with a stop sign is that it implies the unit was moving. If the unit is already stationary, and then slept, it does not really make sense. For example the units on islands or AA guns, those are typical candidates for 'sleep'.
I am very curious what people think about combining the 'center' button with the unit image, whether it sounds like a good idea to combine the two and if it would be intuitive enough, or perhaps better to leave the two as independent.
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@LaFayette Nah, the moon is at least better than an entrenchment tool, that would definitely imply units not moving are doing something to better their defence capabilities (which would be a cool feature).
A major issue, currently, is that this feature overboard for relatively thin side bars, meaning skins having narrow small maps. I like diminutive right side bars, as they leave more room for board view. You can see the issue in any games of the 270bc_variants map (but not 270bc, that has a wider small map).
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@Cernel To address this, I suggest you remove the small flag display right to the units (which is completely worthless). That should cut a good amount of pixels.
Then, the stuff should not initally be cut to the left or right (currently partially or totally hiding the rightmost buttons), but, if still too big, the units display should be cut, initially.
You can test it with Napoleonic Empires. Currently the "next" unit button is mostly cut, there, for me.
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That's a good scenario on Napoleonic Empires to see, I added a reminder to fix this: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/5181
An interesting behavior, once the side bar is made larger, it cannot then be made the original size to cut off the arrow button. The Java UI rendering technology in use is about 25 years old, good times
Funny enough what's is increasing the width the most is the 'unit avatar' image.
@Cernel do you know offhand if sidebar width is a map config? Or is it controlled by the engine?
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@LaFayette Yeah, I believe the right panel width is solely based on the minimap width for the map. Probably should just consider setting a hard minimum which the unit scroller requires. Though to @Cernel point, seeing if there are some ways to make its required width a bit smaller would be good.
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@LaFayette In my experience, the starting wideness of the right sidebar is determined soley by the wideness of the small map (that you have at the top of the right sidebar). If anything else (like the text in the action bar) is too big for these dimensions, the sidebar cannot be brought back to the original size, if anything enlarges it (for example, clicking on "Game/Show history", then on "Game/Show current game") the minimum wideness being determined by the most encumbering of the several possible items, of which the small map is one. I see this as a problem, as the right side bar should always default to the wideness determined by the small map (that is the only way a mapmaker can currently configure the wideness of the right sidebar at a skin level), or at least should be possibly manually thinned down to it after having been enlarged.
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Personally, I would have a right sidebar just wide enough to see the units and their stack numbers in the territory tab, that would be even a tad smaller of the wideness currently determined at start for Napoleonic Empires. I think a good small map wideness, in this case, may be 128 plus the wideness of the map's units (176 pixels for 48 pixels wide units and 192 pixels for 64 pixels wide units; the small map of Napoleonic Empires is 200 pixels).
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Did not read all of this thread, so please excuse if the icon controversy has been resolved.
I occurred to me that it could be the term "sleeping" that is at issue.
I it were to be thought of as "waiting" and icons were made for wait, stop all waits etc, it may be easier? -
@Mahks I'd prefer the term "standing". I agree "waiting" is better than "sleeping".
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