map making questions

ff03k64

I am hoping to make my own map at some point, so I have been looking at POS2. It didn't really tell me how you can do some things that I have seen on other maps that I like. First is making multiple enemies have negative power in battle. Actually, I am not sure if it had any affecting enemy troops either positive or negative.

I am also hoping to use a whole world map. Can anyone point me to a current decent quality map with terrain that I could use that the author wouldn't mind if I used it?

Third question, this will likely be a 2 player map (cause i can't think of how i would do it with more). How many different units per side is too many? Would you say that total is different if there are more than just 2 sides?

Thanks for any help!

beelee

@ff03k64
Hi ff welcome to the site. You can do the negative bonus with "supportAttachment". Use a - in the bonus.

I think I remember that @Black_Elk had made a global baseline type map and encouraged others to use it. I could be wrong though.

Probably be a good idea to look at a map that has similar things that you want to do and use it as a guide for those things.

redrum

@ff03k64 Yeah, you can have supportAttachments that provide positive or negative support for enemy troops. You can see all the supportAttachments options and examples here: https://github.com/triplea-maps/the_pact_of_steel/blob/master/map/games/pact_of_steel_2.xml#L2827

There are a lot of existing maps based on world map that you could potentially start from. It really depends how large you want it and if you want to start from a map that has already drawn territories or want to draw territories yourself.

All depends how complex/deep you want the map to be. You have everything from something like revised with around 10 unit types to Total World War that has 30-40 unit types.

I would recommend first playing a lot of the existing maps to get ideas and maybe try modding an existing map to add/change stuff to get a feel for it before diving into a whole new map.

ff03k64

@redrum said in map making questions:

@ff03k64 Yeah, you can have supportAttachments that provide positive or negative support for enemy troops. You can see all the supportAttachments options and examples here: https://github.com/triplea-maps/the_pact_of_steel/blob/master/map/games/pact_of_steel_2.xml#L2827

Thanks! The maker of the LOTR Arda map must have gotten a little extra creative to make the xml shorter perhaps? Or maybe I don't quite understand it all yet (very likely). He used tags and then had that tag get the options. If I am reading it right, I should just need to change the 'side' in the unit attachments.

There are a lot of existing maps based on world map that you could potentially start from. It really depends how large you want it and if you want to start from a map that has already drawn territories or want to draw territories yourself.

I would probably be interested in a medium sized world map with terrain effects if you know of any. I also wouldn't want to just steal someone else's map, so would want one that the owner wouldn't care if I used. I might want to draw a map eventually, but for figuring out units and ideas etc. I think it would be easier to just use one that is already out there.

All depends how complex/deep you want the map to be. You have everything from something like revised with around 10 unit types to Total World War that has 30-40 unit types.

I am guessing that 30-40 is total? So I am guessing that like 10/nation would probably start to get up there a little bit? I am guessing that at some point the territories start to get too cluttered.

I would recommend first playing a lot of the existing maps to get ideas and maybe try modding an existing map to add/change stuff to get a feel for it before diving into a whole new map.

My plan is an xcom map, so I have a basic idea of where I want to end up. It is just how do I get there.

ff03k64

@beelee said in map making questions:

@ff03k64
Hi ff welcome to the site. You can do the negative bonus with "supportAttachment". Use a - in the bonus.

<option name="bonus" value="-2"/>

I think I remember that @Black_Elk had made a global baseline type map and encouraged others to use it. I could be wrong though.

Probably be a good idea to look at a map that has similar things that you want to do and use it as a guide for those things.

Thanks! I am not sure what you mean with what Black_Elk did. Did he make the Arda map? Is there a map that you are referring to?

I plan on looking at lots of maps for various things. Need some objectives and triggers eventually. But that is a long way off.

Cernel

@redrum Does the repository have another map of our whole globle with territory effects? I think TWW is the only one.

Can anyone point me to a current decent quality map with terrain

redrum

@ff03k64 Yeah, @alkexr created BofA and created his own script to generate the XML. But since then in the pre-release there are now shortcuts (foreach, variables) to do essentially what he did:
https://github.com/triplea-maps/the_pact_of_steel/blob/master/map/games/pact_of_steel_2.xml#L18
https://github.com/triplea-maps/the_pact_of_steel/blob/master/map/games/pact_of_steel_2.xml#L1560

Those are really only needed if you are creating a fairly complex map with many similar attachments.

You probably want to take a look at Total World War. It is pretty complex but shows how to use territory effects on a good sized map. You'll want to talk to @Hepps if you actually want to use it as the base for your map.

So for number of unit types it depends if you need them per nation (each nation has unique set of units or you need separate unit types for each nation due to wanting certain custom techs) or most units are shared across nations.

ff03k64

@redrum Well, xcom is an alien invasion, so both primary sides will have very different units! I might try to incorporate neutrals/minors in some way as well.

beelee

@ff03k64 ahh...I misunderstood. Just a base map of earth that he made. I'm not familiar with Arda

Hepps

@ff03k64 Hi, and welcome to the Triple A world.

As others have indicated, downloading as many games as possible and looking at the existing repository of world maps is a great place to start your adventure.

If you are looking to get a really good shot of earth from which to build a map... NASA's satellite image is probably one of the best...

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/blogs/elegantfigures/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2011/10/land_shallow_topo_2011_8192.jpg

ff03k64

@Hepps I am not looking to build a map from the ground up. At least not yet. Maybe when i get a better framework for what i want to do. I am looking for a decent world map to build from. I know that TripleA is open source, but i don't know if that necessarily means the maps as well, and even if it does, i would rather get the authors permission to use their creations.

That said, by what redrum said, TWW is a good one and yours, so do you care if i do use it?

Hepps

@ff03k64 I have no issue if you use the base map. Meaning the base tiles.

I would prefer it if you created the reliefs and decorations for your own map as TWW has a very distinctive look and I'd like to see it remain its own unique piece of work.

Cernel

On this regard, TripleA lacks a set of territory effects in assets, either for bottom bar and board display (it used to have them, for board display, back in 1.8.0.9, but I'm not against that removal, as those were of very low quality). If TripleA would have one, covering the main kind of terrains, mapmakers could just use those with the integrated placement or by pasting them on the relief or populating them as decorations.

ff03k64

@Hepps Okay, thanks. Can I assume that the reliefs are just how the map displays the terrain effects? And hence are just visual and not actually affecting game play themselves, as the part that affects the play is the label of mountainous, hill, etc.?

I don't know if i worded that well.

Hepps

@ff03k64 You are correct. And yes you worded it well.

The visuals on the map themselves I did purely as reliefs.

The actual gameplay effects are derived from territory attachments inside the xml.

ff03k64

@Hepps @beelee @redrum @Cernel

Thanks for all your responses so far!

Looking at TWW some more, I think it is a little bigger than I want to go with. Any suggestions for other whole world maps that are smaller? I looked at WWIIv3, but i think slightly bigger would be nice. Or at least splitting India and Germany into 2-3 territories each. Maybe Brazil as well. Would that be very difficult/possible?

And then using the currently impassable terrain. I assume making them passable is an XML edit?

Thanks again!

Hepps

@ff03k64 Splitting a territory isn't necessarily hard... there just a series of things you need to do.

And yes the impassable territories is a matter of removing that from the terr. attachment in the xml.

ff03k64

@Hepps Is there a guide or wiki or anything? I can figure out xml stuff by going through it. But that seems like it wouldn't be in the POS xml.

Cernel

@ff03k64 The mapmaking tutorials used to be here:
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/tree/master/docs/map_making

Now I cannot find them anymore...

@redrum etc. Am I missing them or have they been moved. Where are they now?

Panther

@ff03k64

@Cernel said in map making questions:

@ff03k64 The mapmaking tutorials used to be here:
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/tree/master/docs/map_making

Now I cannot find them anymore...

@redrum etc. Am I missing them or have they been moved. Where are they now?

Now the documents are part of the "Wiki":
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/wiki