Capturing Allied Territories with no Capital (givesBackOriginalTerritories)


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    @Cernel Actually, I believe TripleA has all infrastructure changed to the original owner when a player's capital is liberated including AA guns in revised (not sure if that is how its supposed to be though). Here is a save game testing liberating UK's capital and both the factory and AA gun in canada change to UK though there is a graphical glitch that still shows the russian one until its moved: test.tsvg

    I glanced at the code as well and from what I can tell its ALL infra are changed to original owner when a capital is liberated.

    Here is the excerpt from revised rules for AA and factories:

    AA
    Usable by Invading Forces: If a territory is captured, any antiaircraft guns there are also captured. They
    can be used by the capturing player in future combats. Antiaircraft guns are never destroyed, except when
    a transport carrying one is sunk. If you move an antiaircraft gun into a friendly territory, place one of your
    control markers under it. If you liberate a territory containing a captured antiaircraft gun, control reverts to
    the original owner.

    Factory
    Usable by Invading Forces: If a territory is captured, an industrial complex there is also captured. It can be
    used by the capturing player on the turn after it is captured. Industrial complexes are never destroyed. You
    cannot place your new units at an industrial complex owned by a friendly power, unless its capital is in enemy hands (see Liberating a Territory on page 18). Even if you liberate a territory with an industrial complex
    in it, you cannot use the complex; the original controller can use it on his or her next turn.

    @Panther Any insight into how liberating capitals is supposed to work for the various versions?


  • Moderators

    @redrum said in Capturing Allied Territories with no Capital (givesBackOriginalTerritories):

    @Cernel Actually, I believe TripleA has all infrastructure changed to the original owner when a player's capital is liberated including AA guns in revised (not sure if that is how its supposed to be though).

    Yes, I know, and that is a bug. Sometimes it resurfaces; I seem to recall, for example, @bayder mentioned it somewhere (I might be wrong). It would be good if TripleA would have an actual tracker, in which to keep a list of all existent bugs over the years (or decades!), as it seems they get lost (or closed) in the various trackers and forums, over the years.

    I know it doesn't work correctly before Anniversary (this is one of the several things that TripleA gets wrong for Revised, and one of the few issues that are the same for LHTR too); I thought it was clear I was talking about what TripleA should do. And, yes, in the moment in which you liberate a territory, everything that would be captured in that territory is also turned to the power you are liberating the territory for (liberating is capturing stuff for another one, and follows all the rules for capturing stuff). The matter I was talking about is just for the case of changing ownership from yourself to an ally of yours (that without politics can only happen because of capital liberation, while with politics can also happen by satisfying the capital requirement when upgrading to a relationship that gives back original territories, while the former relationship didn't (except that in TripleA this is bugged too, as it doesn't require the capital)).

    In my opinion, extrapolating the rulebook (just a subjective interpretation that cannot be proved), how it should work is that when you "give-back" (not liberate) a territory all immobile units in that territory should be also turned over (comprising the ones that you built) (linking it to the fact of being immobile, instead of being an infrastructure, would fully cover the Revised case without requiring exceptions), while, only from v3 onwards, you should also give back the mobile infrastructures (but with v5 there are no mobile infrastructures anymore). This is just how I would personally extend the referring rulesets to TripleA in general. So, for example, in Napoleonic Empire giving back a territory with a Mortella Tower, a Fortress, an Encampment and a General in it, I would give back the Mortella Tower, the Fortress (these have been surely built by me, as they cannot be captured), the Encampment (that I may have captured or I may have built after capture of the territory), while it should be up to the mapmaker if to turn over the General too (that may have been captured, and not necessarily in that territory, built in that territory after capture, or just moved into it at any point after capture).

    @Panther The only thing I'm not entirely sure, actually, is what happens in Anniversary if I have a territory that I'm giving back (for being in my possession, but originally owned by an ally of mine, that just got its capital liberated) and in this territory there is an aaGun that I captured in that territory, another aaGun I built in that territory after capturing it and also another aaGun that I owned since start game and just moved into that territory. What I believe it should happen is that I turn over all three aaGuns, but I'm not entirely sure about this.


  • Moderators

    @redrum said in Capturing Allied Territories with no Capital (givesBackOriginalTerritories):

    If you liberate a territory containing a captured antiaircraft gun, control reverts to
    the original owner.

    I think this part is not clear, as it appears making an exception for the case I'm liberating a territory defended by an enemy antiaircraft gun that enemy power already owned or placed, and then moved into the territory after capturing it, let alone the fact that I can liberate territories with antiaircraft guns belonging to allies of the enemy power I'm liberating the territory from. It would be clearer if it said something like "If you liberate a territory containing any numbers of enemy antiaircraft guns, control of all antiaircraft guns change to the original owner of the territory". So, if @Panther can take a look at this too... Practically what happens in the case I'm combat-liberating a territory with:
    1- An AA that was captured in that territory when that territory was captured by the enemy power I'm liberating it from.
    2- An AA, belonging to the enemy power I'm liberating the territory from, that was captured somewhere else, but still from the power I'm liberating that territory for, then moved into the territory I'm liberating.
    3- An AA, belonging to an ally of the enemy power I'm liberating the territory from, that was captured somewhere else, but still from the power I'm liberating that territory for, then moved into the territory I'm liberating.
    4- An AA, belonging to the enemy power I'm liberating the territory from, that was never captured before, by anyone (for example, an AA that my enemy owned since start game and just moved into the territory now I'm liberating).
    5- An AA, belonging to an ally of the enemy power I'm liberating the territory from, that was never captured before, by anyone (for example, an AA that the ally of my enemy owned since start game and just moved into the territory now I'm liberating).

    3 and 5 are cases in which, before territory liberation, the AA is in the enemy territory with a control marker of an ally of that enemy underneath. For example, British conquering North-Western Europe from the Germans, then the Americans moving an Americans AA into it, then the Japanese liberating North-Western Europe (the Germans still owning their capital).

    1 to 5, what goes to my ally, I'm liberating the territory for, and what goes to me, if anything?


  • Moderators Admin

    @Cernel @redrum I will definitely take a look at all of this but will not be able to do that before next week, as I am currently travelling.


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